Metallics or Classics?

[Callatya]

Lilli and I were having a natter today and the topic of metallic fish came up. Now both of us are doing primarily metallics, but turns out we were also both worried that there are very few breeders atm doing the classic colours in good quality fish. I remember thinking that I really wanted extended red plakats (not cambo red) and then realising that in all likelihood I'd need to import a pair should I want a pair (or 2:D) in my breeding room. I couldn't think of anyone who was breeding them in Australia. Hypothetically, if betta imports stopped tomorrow, what would we have in the country to work with in the way of colour? (ignoring pet store VTs for the time being) I think we'd be right for CG, and Gold, Red Gold, and Metallic Blue and Turqouise and probably dayak in CTs. I have a hunch we would be lacking in NON-METALLIC red, clean bodied cambodian, royal blue, green (real green) yellow, orange, opaque, cello (whatever happened to cello??) mustard gas, and quite possibly even black lace. Is anyone doing any of the above in HM or PK or DT? I'm sure there may be some decorative fish, but is anyone really seriously breeding them? I tried to think of what everyone was actively breeding and really, I think a whole lotta people are doing metallics and metallic crosses (including myself). Najrick has a few classics going, and Luke has some good reds, and I think Robin has some royal blues still, and Liz has the black plakats. I'm sure there are more, but my memory is not so hot Its definately not a large number though. So it got me to thinking, maybe we should find out what our collective focus is on I'm pretty sure its the fantastic metallics that are around at the moment, but I imagine metallic is very very hard to breed out of a fish (has anyone tried?) and it would be good to know what we have in the way of non-metallic lines. :)

[Chuckie]

Thanks for raising this Abbey.

I imagine metallic is very very hard to breed out of a fish (has anyone tried?)

I haven't, but perhaps after an F1 cross of turquoise metallics I'll see what I get. I am hoping for the re-emergence of the copper that constituted one of the parents in some ratio, and I will be very keen to see if of the remaining, non-copper fish I get traditional blues or metallic blues.

Is anyone doing melanos/double blacks? I mean not just a one-of spawn, but seriously line breeding this colour?

Butterfly

While we are on the subject, another trait (as opposed to colour) that I don't think anyone is concentrating on is butterfly, and I mean good, show quality butterfly. I have a copper gold butterfly ariving soon from Rainnybettas, and my silky MG x turquoise spawn produced a gorgeous little copper butterfly girl with a not-overly-pointy anal fin, so I have decided to give those 2 a try and see if I get (1) butterflies and (2) good butterflies. The male's butterfly pattern isn't great but the female's seems (unless she marbles ... see below) to be pretty excellent, especially for a female.

Marble gene

The marble gene seems to be popping up everywhere. Has anyone got a good solid colour strain going with no marble gene? I expect that the red strains we have happening are pretty safe, but a lot of the metallics and blues are thowing marble, IME. I love marble, don't get me wrong, but it is so hard to breed out of a line that I'd like to see some measures taken to address that.

*edit -

if you ARE working with any of these colours and we don't know it, unless it is a big surprise/secret please let us know so we can maybe think about developing some focus as a national, unified hobby. If that's what people are comfortable with, of course.

I personally have no problem if people just want to keep breeding their bettas just or fun, as the whim takes them. But I am concerned, like Abbey, that the day may come when we can't select and import whatever new breeding stock we want, and we will be stuck with whatever we can get retail, and what's already here.

[Luke k]

As some of you know I am truly focussing on Reds, but I am still in the very early stages of developing my line. I have 3 young Red HM spawns at the moment (under 1 week old) from various lines. Pat and Najina are the most established with Reds. I also have some BF's which I will be playing with. Cheers, Luke

[splendidbetta]

My breeding focus is on Copper Golds and Metallic Blues and Greens. I have not yet started my line, but when I do, I plan to continue it and breed extensively to reach my goals. Just follow my Ausaqua Blog to see what I am doing and what I am planning in terms of this line I think I ODed on Classic blues because of the 2 huge spawns I did. I also don't like their non-masked faces and backs. So it would probably be a very long time before I consider reverting back to classics if I do at all...

[Figure_8]

I would love to get a line or two of MG's going (have had several attempts at this so far..its been a bit of a saga), Platinums/opaques and true greens (unfortunately my poor Pretzel never really recovered from shipping issues (he wasn't shipped through any people currently on this board though) and I lost him without getting a viable spawn). I also love metallics (and just about every other colour, although reds aren't really my thing)

[Betta_Di]

Well I still have my blue CT babies and will probably breed them soonish. I also have a black orchid plakat and a mettallic turq plakat coming. Other than that my HM stock are all metallics of some kind ...

[coycub]

I'm also concentrating on Red HM BF's from the SUthasine line.

[VickiPS]

I'm still at the stage where I like to breed promising-looking pairs regardless fo colour or type However, I really want to see what can be developed from the pastel grizzles, reds and the green metallic crossbreeds. Since I can realistically only handle one spawn every 5 - 6 weeks, I don't like my chances of doing all three lines justice.

[Jess]

I have only bred Turq's and Ext Reds, and Marbles. Never got chance at spawning my coppers, they never really did it for me after they died. Ext Red or Cambodian Red's woohoo!

[najrick]

It may look like we have been working on a lot of colours, but we have our 3 main lines. They are Copper/Golds, Reds and Blues. Now I feel lucky enough to say that I have established lines in all 3 colours. And keeping the 3 colour lines going is very important to me. Yes we dabble in inter-crossing the lines to see what we get. But I have to stress that I will never do this at the expense of losing my original base colours. So if I break down my colours a bit more this is what you will find. Blues: We are currently getting Royal blue, turquoise and the odd melano from this line. And yes this line has thrown marbles, but so far only a couple each spawn, so I really can not say the marble gene can be that strong in this line. Reds: Our red HM line is based on the blond gene, meaning that I can also get Cambodians as well as reds from this line. I also get a number of bettas with BF patterning from this line. I really love this line and am currently into our 3rd generation with these fish. We also have our red CT's, now these are from the extended red gene, so their colour is stronger then the red HM's, but you can get a lot of black discolouration on the scales. We are yet to see any marble or BF genes on any of these fish. They are 100% red CT's Copper/Golds: we have been doing copper/gold for a while now. In fact our first ever imported pair were Copper/Golds. We have recently imported some new fish to hopefully improve this line and start a new one with the imports as well. With our last couple of spawns we have had a lot of different outcomes. They have thrown Long finned HMs and SDs as well as DT, Plakat's and even 1 VT. We have had BF's as well as Marbles from these spawns. So you could say they really are a mixed bag. While I have had fun doing my other colours these 3 are my basics. I love the fish I got from mixing Copper/Gold and blue. And we have a spawn of Copper/Gold and red growing up atm --- weird colour to say the least I also have a lovely Gold Plakat pair in the spawning tank atm, so hopefully I can add Gold plakats to that above list one day, but not until I have done an F2....thats when I feel I really can call that colour "my" line. Oh and we also have a bit of fun with the Marble CT's and the humble VT as well. We have growing up at the moment: 1 Red BF HM spawn F2 1 Red HM spawn F2 1 Marble CT spawn F2 1 RB HM spawn F2 1 Melano X RB HM spawn 1 Metallic Blue/Green spawn (CG X RB) 1 CG X Red HM spawn 1 Red CT spawn 1 Purple X Blue VT spawn 1 CG HM spawn as of yesterday (2 absolutely sensational parents from RainyBettas. Both are HM in their own right) and hopefully 1 SUthasine Gold PK spawn in the next few days. Just a little bit busy Najina

[Robbies Betta]

I have gone thru a cple of stages myself but right now I am concentraing on metallic blues. I was going to do greens, but I don't have the time to concentrate on getting the type of green I want (Phil hope your greens turn out ) I was considering keeping a line of classic RB's to keep the classic colouring, and also to ocassionally cross to my metallic line. At the mo I have a cple of CG's that need to be sold, a group of juvie Metallics (CGxturq/platinum), and juvies of a Masked RBxRB (does masked mean metallic? he had no sheen to him like other metallics, but the bubs look metallic) I have got a pair of marbles from the second lot, and was considering having a marbled RB line (hopefully throw sum opaques ) and a sibling pair of metallic RB's. I also got some BF's in this spawn, so might consider having a line of BF's from them. So that means I'll have 3 lines going from that spawn, and hopefully cross some with the Masked RB spawn.

[debstep]

I have my MG HM's from Liz's spawn early last year, they bred and produced both single and double tailed boys and girls, I am breeding these now. The ST male is very dark with blue, the DT is straight MG. I lost my HM yellow boy in the heat and my spawn was 100% girls so I am scratching my head there, I still have about 10. (Their mother was his sibling that got 2nd overall female at the Pet Expo show last year.) My Xman reds from the orange line produced all red (cambodian) except 1 female who is more orange but not a nice one; they included BF pattern and Rosetails. I am just about to breed the F1's as soon as I get room. My big red veiltail boy's spawn has deep red with black, straight red and big surprise, really nice MGs. I have no idea of his breeding as he was a petshop surprise. They are just over 3 months now. I have a small spawn from a blue Straights CT pair just getting separated now but they definately have a metallic sheen. Unfortunately over the past 3 months while sick the fish just got basic care except for the blues above (QT tank mating) so starting again really. Cheers Deb

[Liz40]

I was breeding double Black HM's but gave up. As you all know I was the proud owner of Batman but he died late last year. I have sons from him and two that aren't too bad. One in particular is a pretty boy, but has short fins (similar to Plakat, just a tad longer and curling) so no good to breed with. The latest batch I acquired from Suthasine had fins that were WAY too big to move around and spawn with. Too much trouble. Plus of the 4 fish I bought, two pairs, one male died. So I was very disappointed. They cost over $200 all up to buy. So I have moved onto Super Black Plakats and am now trying to develop a serious line by bringing in two new Super Black Plakats from Thailand to breed with the daughters I have from my original pair. (which were from Dong). I placed my first black plakat in with one of the daughters last weekend and they bred, but in typical fashion, he ate the eggs. So I'm waiting for a second batch. :)

[Jess]

There seems to be more metallics being bred these days. I would like to see the poll active again, for curiosity :P

[Chuckie]

still metallics for me - now with some dragon chucked in. How times have changed - I don't think we even had any dragons in Oz when Ab posted the poll!