Callatya Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 I have been thinking about this for a few hours and figured what the heck I want to know more about these fish, how they ended up CITES listed, how many are in the country etc etc etc. I went to look up illegal imports/noxious fish for NSW, and found that arowanas aren't on it. I always thought that they were illegal. I suppose because i figured they'd be competition of the saratogas, but apparently not. Noxious fish in NSW list So c'mon, what do you know about these fish? Why are they so prized? How many are there? Can you import the chipped ones for breeding? Do they breed in aquaria? More info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VickiPS Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 Far as I can find out, they've been CITES listed since 1975, and classed as endangered on the 2000 Red List. I assume they're not declared noxious since they can't be legally imported, and there aren't enough of them in the country to pose a known threat. Breeding seems to be a challenge, as they require a pond to spawn in. They are a mouthbrooding species: the fry are carried by the male for 2 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango4Jade Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Lets see... I know that it isnt allowed for import because its a threat to native aquatic life. Its also eats small frogs, worms, fish, insects and basically anything that can fit into it's mouth. As far as the numbers in Australia...in Sydney along there is an increase number of "Silver Arowans - approx. 400 on the market" and some Chilli Reds and Super Reds poppin up this week. Silver Arowanas are not locally bred in NT and North QLD. Thats why they can be purchased at $150-$350. But the Asian version is more expensive in Asia, thus the increase in prices in Australia. Since, I have never heard of locally bred Asian Arowanas in Australia, thus all of them must be smuggled into Aus. When a fish is smuggled into Aus, the prices of it skyrocket! Because people will pay endless amounts of money to obtain an illegal fish. I.e Plecos are the same...you get tiny ones for a few hundred! Or sometimes even a few thousand. Snakehead...Gars...Carnivious Catfish and other illegal fish are highly priced! The only way to get them is to smuggle them...thus again the high pricing of them. They may be worth chips in Asia, but if a country doesnt allow them for import, people smuggle them in to make a massive profit. Having an Arowana "Dragon Fish" to the Asian Community means wealth and Goodluck. Since the Arowana represents the Dragon, most people buy them for their business or homes to bring wealth and goodluck into their family and business. To many people, these fish just eat live foods, BUT! Most eat dry foods and frozen foods. They do preferr live, but will accept any other meaty based foods. Some people fed frogs, centipeds, worms, crickets, feeder fish, tadpoles, pellets, and flakes. Breeding can be done, but first you must obtain a large amount of them. Which means $$. They also need huge ponds...so land is requires...they are tropical fish...so must be breed up north. Thus its basically restricted to a small part of Australia. I wouldnt mind breeding them, but what happens if they dont breed? Its basically 50/50. Can you take the risk? Also depending on the grade of the fish will also determine the price of the fish. The top graded are AAA grades...these fish are basically worth a few grand (US) in asia. Also the types of arowana can determine the prices as well. There are many types of arowanas...some include: RTG = Red Tail Golden XBACK = Cross Back YT = Yellow Tail SR = Super Red ( Grade 1 Red ) CR = Chilli Red ER = Emperor Red BMB XB = Bukit Merah Blue Crossback PG = Panda Gold PHG = Pahang Gold PR = Purple Red EBXB = Electric Blue Crossback VFSR = Violet Fusion Super Red There are also types of scale height in grading an arowana... "Crossbacks" are so called because they typically have scales that cross or shine over the 5th/6th row. Some crossbacks with very good potential cross very early (e.g. 12 inches). They are valued not only for it's crossing which gives it a complete look when viewed from the side, but also usually better shines than any of the other asian varieties. "Highbacks" are so called because they typically have scales that shine over the 4th/5th row. Some highbacks have chances to develop colour onto their 6th row of scales. Highbacks are basically higher in value than a normal arowana, but is not as expensive as a crossback. Mango~ *lol* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VickiPS Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 I know that it isnt allowed for import because its a threat to native aquatic life. Its also eats small frogs, worms, fish, insects and basically anything that can fit into it's mouth. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The reason they aren't allowed into Australia is because there is an international ban on trade, ie. the CITES listing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 what does CITES stand for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambo Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 so they are endangered? That's what I thought was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango4Jade Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 The reason they aren't allowed into Australia is because there is an international ban on trade, ie. the CITES listing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Its also because its a threat to native aquatic life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 would they be much of a threat, if they are endangered? If they need tropical conditions to exist, they would only be a problem in the tropics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango4Jade Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Yea, thats true. But if its endangered, then how come there is so many in the markets of Asia. Thats one thing I dont really get. Most of the time when an animal is endangered. They are usually kept on zoos or the aquarium. Or is it only endangered in the wild? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VickiPS Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Asian arowanas are endangered in the wild. Scleropages formosus is listed in Appendix 1 of the CITES Agreement, which means it has been classified as 'threatened with extinction'. Trade in specimens of these species is permitted only in exceptional circumstances. According to the CITES website: Appendix-I specimens An import permit issued by the Management Authority of the State of import is required. This may be issued only if the specimen is not to be used for primarily commercial purposes and if the import will be for purposes that are not detrimental to the survival of the species. In the case of a live animal or plant, the Scientific Authority must be satisfied that the proposed recipient is suitably equipped to house and care for it. An export permit or re-export certificate issued by the Management Authority of the State of export or re-export is also required. An export permit may be issued only if the specimen was legally obtained; the trade will not be detrimental to the survival of the species; and an import permit has already been issued. A re-export certificate may be issued only if the specimen was imported in accordance with the provisions of the Convention and, in the case of a live animal or plant, if an import permit has been issued. In the case of a live animal or plant, it must be prepared and shipped to minimize any risk of injury, damage to health or cruel treatment. Effectively this means that only captive-bred specimens can be traded in, and any trading is strictly controlled through a licencing system. A query on the CITES trade database showed that 4 Asian arowanas were imported into Australia from Singapore in 2004, and none in 2005. The IUCN Redlist 200 classifies Scleropages formosus as EN A1cd+2cd, which means it is 'Endangered' (at very high risk of extinction in the wild in the near future), based on: 1) An observed, estimated, inferred or suspected reduction of at least 50% over the last 10 years or three generations, whichever is the longer, based on (and specifying) any of the following: a) direct observation B ) an index of abundance appropriate for the taxon c) a decline in area of occupancy, extent of occurrence and/or quality of habitat d) actual or potential levels of exploitation e) the effects of introduced taxa, hybridisation, pathogens, pollutants, competitors or parasites. 2) A reduction of at least 50%, projected or suspected to be met within the next 10 years or three generations, whichever is the longer, based on (and specifying) any of (B ), ©, (d), or (e) above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango4Jade Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Vicki, thanks for clearing it up :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure_8 Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 that would definitely explain the megga prices then. Thanks Vicki! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VickiPS Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 A few more interesting facts from the CITES site: -- If a commercial breeder of a CITES Appendix-I species fulfils certain conditions and is registered with the CITES Secretariat, specimens from the breeding operation may be treated as if they are of Appendix-II species, meaning that they can be traded commercially (permit requirement is not waived). If the animals were not bred for commercial purposes they may be traded simply with a certificate of captive breeding. -- There are a total of only 41 registered breeders of Asian arowanas for commercial trading -- 22 in Indonesia, 10 in Malaysia and 9 in Singapore. All captive-bred specimens from these legally registered operations are individually microchipped. -- Scleropages formosus is one of only 9 fish species included in Appendix 1 of the CITES Agreement. (Appendix 1 includes the most vulnerable taxa of flora and fauna). The other fish are the shortnose sturgeon, common sturgeon, seven-striped barb, cui-ui, giant Mekong catfish, totoaba and coelocanths. -- The Indonesian population of Scleropages formosus was in appendix II of the CITES Agreement from January 1990 until February 1995, when all populations were moved back to Appendix 1. --The net commercial export of arowanas for 2004 was approx. 25,000 specimens. Singapore was the largest importer, with approx. 13,000 net specimens imported (gross import over 20,000). Malaysia was the largest gross and net exporter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango4Jade Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 My specimen is from the Xian Leng Holdings Berhad Farms and its one of the largest and most respectible Arowana Farms in the business. The fish is tagged and has an Identification Cert. Thus my specimen is legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VickiPS Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Obviously it has been bred and ID'd according to the CITES requirements. Beyond that I wouldn't want to speculate :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishchick Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 legally bred, not legally sold or imported!! You have a smuggled fish - which again adds to the price. All the more reason to QT it - hasn't been done to date! Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango4Jade Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 You have a smuggled fish - which again adds to the price. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Look...even if its smuggled...once I buy it from a LFS its legal :goodo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 what do you mean by "legal"? Your purchase was legal - but the fact that the fishy is in the new country still isn't. Anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charntelle Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Hey Vicki Thanks for posting such well researched info. It is great that you have taken the time and care to do this to help keep us well informed. Cheers! PS: Does buying a smuggled fish from the LFS then make it legal??? Just curious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 depends what you mean by legal. if the fish is not legally in the country, purchasing it doesn't change that. You still have a valid contract of sale with the LFS though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charntelle Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 OK. So - if I bought one from a LFS that was illegally in the country, and the transaction was somehow "outed", we would all be in trouble then? Or just whoever brought it in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillieOrCory Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 OK! As far as I know bristlenoses are illegal to import! So they are illegal! People who have bristlenoses raise their hands!!! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 no, bristlenoses are not illegal, it is just illegal to import them. People breed them here, those ones are not illegal. I suppose it is possible that an accessory charge might be laid against you if you bought an fish that was smuggled here. I am not a criminal lawyer :goodo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VickiPS Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 The Dept of Environment and Heritage has an information sheet about this: How do I know if an exotic animal is illegally imported? According to this fact sheet, any fish not listed in Part I or II of the List of specimens suitable for live import (Live Import List) : have never been imported legally into Australia for the purpose of being kept by individuals for private purposes. No CITES-listed species are on the live import list. According to DEH: The possession of illegally imported animals (or their offspring) is an offence under Section 303GN of the EPBC Act...The penalty for illegal possession under the EPBC Act is imprisonment of up to 5 years and/or a fine of up to $110,000. I guess than bristlenoses slip under the bar because they've been here and have been bred here since before the legislation was enacted (just a guess). So there you have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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