**BETTA AUSTRALIS SEPTEMBER BETTA SHOW**

[CNgo2006]

I'm just saying if you have the money to buy the fish you have a very high chance of winning, is it really something to be proud of? By doing it this way it minimizes the breeders efforts in breeding quality show fish, I mean why go to all the trouble of breeding and growing them out when you can just buy the fish?

Not trying to put anyone down for doing so, if you feel that I have I apologize, this is just how I feel and speak my mind rather than worry if I'd be hated for it, if not then these topics will never be brought up.

I understand that these things take time, quick QUESTION - how long have bettas been in the country now and how long have these shows been running for?

Hopefully next year we will start to award points at each show, breeder receives points as well as owner. If you show your own fish and win, you get both lots of points. This way your locally bred fish may not win against a bought fish but at the end of the year, the person breeding his/her own fish will win overall.

This is an excellent idea A++

[melbournebetta]

Hey Chi,

Certainly no hard feelings felt - this is the joy of Ausaqua, we all agree we're entitled to ask delicate questions and we all have opinions! ......I'm just pointing out how normal shows run internationally.

The betta splendens have been in and out of fashion in Australia for a long time, while I can't give you a concise history of the breed in the country - from what I understand of the Victorian scene, in the 70's there were plenty of splendens, (VT / CT) and only a rare few halfmoons and very few plakats. They had a reputation for being delicate to import and often weren't bothered with by retailers and importers for this reason (in fact just about 90% of the females imported would die in transit, this holds true to today - that they are the most volatile of the splenden varieties to transit) ...just ask Coburg Aquarium.

About 1998 when I got my first veil tails I was searching for the illusive halfmoons, and it wasn't until 2008 that I actually found anything remotely similar (delta) in a pet store, and I have to say it wasn't until 2010 that I noticed any Victorian LFS had a halfmoon or giant variety on the shelves.

Still to this day they are few and far between - There is a reason someone's store is infamous around the fish keeping people, and the betta nerds - she's one of the VERY FEW people dedicated to quality and supplies a reliable quantity of these fish.

Not to mention she's specialized enough to be able to keep them alive after they arrive.... this strikes AWE in the hearts of old professionals at the Aquarium Society of Victoria.

Second consideration about the breeder/exhibitor point.... have a close look around (: who actually breeds, keeps and shows around you? ...nobody?

We have a vibrant showing community, but even then we can only justify 4 meets per year, we get between 10 - 15 people coming... and if we were only able to show what had been bred locally by our members - there would be no show.

Last Vic betta meet there was only ONE fish that was bred in Australia.... amongst 40 entries... that's pretty full on.

While it'd be nice to have a class dedicated to Aussie bred or Breeder/Exhibitor classes - it's just not viable. Clubs are rewarding breeder/exhibitors with incentives, but there's not much more we can do.

We are working our nut crackers off getting people interested in these fish again, getting the scene together, Vic betta have been operating for over 12 months (is it two?) and Betta Australis are working on the northern scene... it's hard!

Boo Hoo

My point is, you look around you - any breed shows (fish / cats / dogs / horses / bla bla) while some breeders show to illustrate the skill they have in the spawn tank, quite often people have stock in the show that they have bought.

I don't think this is cheating, nor any less credible to be honest - you still need to select that show winner.

In Thailand the corporate types see it as promoting the industry as the breeders strive to be chosen, they do what they are good at - and breed the fish.

The corporates do what they are good at - and throw money at stuff - they buy the best ones, and they need to choose good ones to win, right? so it's about knowing the breed standards too.

Anyway... this is totally ranty - point is that we need support in shows, cubs need energy and fish need water.

The end.

xx

.

[Fletch]

Bettas have been in the country for a long time and there was s pretty good show circuit before ((4+ yrs ago) but this is our second show.

Basically, the winning owners of many comp animals don't breed or raise them. They obviously love the animal to spend $ on it and for them, they can participate and SUPPORT the people that are breeding them. If that is what makes them proud, to be able to say they "owned a show winner", well I will be the first to congratulate them. If that fish was purchased off me I might even buy them a round. Lol.

Basically, different strokes for different blokes, whatever makes you happy.

Share the love. :-)

[forever_and_a_day]

just my quick 2 cents: when/if purchased bettas win the show, i see it as a way of solidifying the fish's show quality status so that once they do breed they can be 'officially' labelled as from a 'show quality' line. i also see it as confirmation of the quality of the buyer's eye when selecting the fish in the first place - something that would probably be useful down the track in their own breeding programs.

and yes breeder points seem like a good idea - the vic betta shows have them don't they?

[melbournebetta]

MT - yeah thats a pretty healthy attitude - god knows all mu show winners (AND LOOSERS) get a dip in the spawn tank - it's nice to say in a spawn log that a fish won best in show or sommin'

Yeah Vic betta operate under the AS of V show rules - and every fish exhibited gets a point, every fish bred by that exhibitor gets another point, and even if I show another breeder's fish - THAT breeder gets a point!

All the points add up to goods you can claim like toasters, plasma screen TVs etc.

I'm saving up all my points so I can get a Jacuzzi

x

[shadoh]

Hi Chi, you are well within your right to ask questions, after all how will you ever get the answers, right? Just remember when we betta freaks get passionate about something - such as trying to inject some life into a close to non-existant show scene, we'll come across as a little ranty, but it isn't all directed at you.

My brain is a little frazzled today, so i'll respond to your post point by point, cause I just know I'll probably go off on a tangent and not get my point across..

I'm just saying if you have the money to buy the fish you have a very high chance of winning, is it really something to be proud of?

With the show this topic is all about, we have 100 Thai entrants. Do you really think that if I go down the road and drop $200 on 2 pair of fish, I stand a chance against any of those? In that instance, it is an even playing field.

Part of the skill of owning show grade fish is the ability to keep them in that condition as long as you can - it can be quite challenging at times. To be able to both choose a show winner and then keep it in show condition is an achievement to be proud of.

I, personally would love to one day see a show dedicated to locally bred fish. There is certainly room to create incentives to encourage breeders to enter (points systems, owner/breeder classes etc, as mentioned above) At the end of the day, if a club refused entries that haven't been bred by the owner of the fish, then we are closing the doors to a different kind of hobbyist - the fish KEEPER. There are plenty of people out there who love to own a showgrade display fish or two who have no inclination to ever breed their fish. The betta community as it stands at the moment is too small to create a divide between keepers and breeders. Betta Australis has a couple of members who have no intention to breed bettas, but want to support their club by entering a fish. By excluding people like this, clubs would lose membership, close down and the entire show scene would implode before it even gets off the ground.

By doing it this way it minimizes the breeders efforts in breeding quality show fish, I mean why go to all the trouble of breeding and growing them out when you can just buy the fish?

Simple, for the love of the hobby. I certainly am not breeding bettas for the sole purpose to win prizes. I breed them because I enjoy them and would love to one day create my own recognisable strains. The fact that I haven't been able to reach that goal doesn't make me want to give up and say "what is the point..." It makes me strive harder, the same way, I will no doubt approach showing my fish. I will be entering some fish that I have bred myself. I don't at all feel that I am at a disadvantage. As I said before, I can't wait to see how some of my fish shape up against some of the big names from Thailand. I really couldn't care less that the fish that beats me is owned by the person who bred it or not, it will only make me want to try harder in my breeding efforts. And if I win a place above, or alongside a fish that was bred by a well known Thai breeder, I am not going to remember who it was that owned it, just that my efforts are as good, or better than the person who bred it.

I understand that these things take time, quick QUESTION - how long have bettas been in the country now and how long have these shows been running for?

As the others have stated, in one form or another, bettas have been around Australia for many years. During that time, the odd betta has been entered in general aquarium shows. It has only been the past 10 years or so that show grade bettas have been available and only a couple of years around 2006-2008 that a dedicated betta show scene was established. For one reason or another, it came to an end. Do a search here on the forum for shows and results from that time and you'll see that there was a much stronger breeder presence on the scene than there is today. As Busman said - This is only the second show that this current incarnation of Betta Australis has hosted. The first only had 40 entries. Let us get the feel of how to put on a show, what works and what doesn't.

Anyway, that's where I stand on the topic. Anyone, please feel free to PM me, or to start another topic to discuss this further. Let's keep this thread in the intent that it was posted - to promote and to inform all the wonderful members of this forum about the upcoming show. Whether you keep, breed or view bettas from afar, you are all OK in my books. Let's band together, sing Koombyah and make the Australian betta scene a strong one, not just for Betta Australis, but ALL clubs and lone betta wolves out there! Be inclusive and share the love.... (where have I heard that before?)

Edited August 22, 2012 by shadoh

[forever_and_a_day]

woah. 100 ENTRANTS from Thailand alone!? must have missed that the first time i read the thread.

good luck benching these guys! :cheer:

[shadoh]

I know - crazy, right It's still possibe we'll get some Indonesian and Japanese entries as well...

[forever_and_a_day]

and some wrinkly fingers i'll bet

[Fletch]

Rekon I may end up with a few more grey hairs as well. :-)

Edited August 22, 2012 by Busman

[CNgo2006]

Yes a part of it is maintaining the show quality but the bigger and most important part is breeding them and growing them up to be a quality fish. Where do the hobbyists who can't afford the imported fish stand, is it really an even playing field? Anyway I'll leave it at that, it may just be me but I would feel funny entering a competition with something I bought but as Paul said different strokes.... One day hopefully a competition for Aussie breeders only.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Chi

[shadoh]

Hey guys, just wanting to know how many entries to expect from the forum. No need to go into detail, just looking for rough numbers so we can plan shelving layouts.

I'll start - I'll have 10 fish and 1 painting...

[Fletch]

5 Betta plus 4 Channoides (?).

[shadoh]

Well, that's half of what we had at the Caboolture show already! And that's only 2 people :)

[2littlerevheads]

i going to put in 5 fish :)

[Fletch]

Hey that's pretty good Jennie, you got a secret stash of bettas???? Lol.

Hhhhmmmm, just relized I said 5, not sure I can fill the last spot. Maybe the blue boy I got of you Jarrod?

For the record, none of the fish I will be showing is really "A class show fish". Some nice fish but nowhere near what someone normally has on the shelf. I am saying this to encourage others to take the plunge. I know it's hard to look at your own fish and think of it beside some of the expected imports but this is what it's about. Most of my fish have already been in shows and didn't come in the running so not hoping for BOS in this one. Lol.

It's all about fun and experience. Hopefully in the future and depending on demand, we may introduce a Australian bred class. Mind you, not sure how you can tell? Easy at club level but once you open up entries to general public, which you would be crazy to stop, how can you tell?

Anyway, it would be fantastic to see some support from any forum members. Fish can be shipped to someone (prior arrangements need to made, of course) so you know your fish are in good hands. :-).

All care, no responsibility is taken for all fish.

[2littlerevheads]

i dont have A class fish ever but i have some nice fish too ,just proud of my hobby . no secret stash here paul :P

Edited August 23, 2012 by 2littlerevheads

[shadoh]

I have at least 1 A class and a B+ *lol*

[Fletch]

And that's what it is about Jennie. :-).

Think your a bit harsh on yours mate, I can think of 2 Top Shelf and some of your others arent far off it.

I am just excited to see all these fish together. Think I am going to bei seeing fish in my sleep for weeks after. Lol.

[briztoon]

My Black Orchid CT pair, but entered individually, a male Smaragdina and male Mahachai. And if he comes good, a male HM. And yes, they are all store bought.

[Fishchick]

Information re showing wilds

http://www.users.on.net/~someone/IBC%20Show%20Stds/

Cheers, someone

[shadoh]

Hey Pete, did you realise that all wilds have to be shown as pairs? Do you still have the girls that go with the boys?

[briztoon]

Thank you someone. Guess I better start reading.

Damn. No I do not have a female Smaragdina, having lost her. So I have to separate my female Mahachai from the sorority and start conditioning her up.

Edited August 23, 2012 by briztoon

[shadoh]

We have a good international turnout as well as Aussie entries, we have entrants from: Thailand, Indonesia, Japan and Philippines.

Join in, be a part of the show or come along, drool over the Bettas and meet other fish nerds!

[xysti53]

Jarrod,

You can put me down for one maybe two fish entries and one in artworks.

And as a result of losing every fighter I had last month, both fish entries are ones I just purchased.

And as for the comments that you should breed your own and only show the ones you have breed.

I find that kind of thinking very disturbing and even a little insulting.

Showing fish is not now and never has been about you the breeder or you the owner. Showing fish is about getting other people that are not involved in the hobby interested in joining the hobby. This is done by putting on the best possible display and having knowledgeable people talk to the public about the hobby.

If showing fish was just about you the breeder or you the owner then fish shows would be dead and gone years ago. Anyone who enters fish in a show with the attitude that they will win big prizes or get heaps of praise for having a winning fish, is showing for the totally wrong reason. It is amazing that some people do that, but they don’t last long in the show scene.

You will find that the people who have been showing for years and continue to show irrespective of winning prizes are all very dedicated hobbyists and do it to promote the hobby.

Yes it is great to win a prize occasionally but the most enjoyment in showing comes when somebody goes "WOW look at that" and it is even better when it comes from kids.

There are definite skills involved in showing fish and some people are better at it than others. But the skill in showing fish and having a Show winner is shared equally between breeding and growing up and preparing fish for shows.

No matter how good a fish is if you fail to look after it and grow it up properly and groom it for showing, all you have is a pretty fish not a show winner.

At the same time if the quality of the fish is not there to start with no matter how good you are at growing up and grooming a fish you will not have a show winning fish.

As the owner you should be entitled to enter any fish at any time no matter how long you have owned said fish and if it wins you the owner should get awarded the accolades of winning.

At the same time I also agree some credit should be given to the breeder ( if known) and this could be done in the form a points system that adds up for a special prize either at that show or for the end of year.

Ok that will do me for my rave after all I have not been showing fish that long, I only started showing in the early 1990’s.

As for the Show Scene in Australia. Fighters have been shown at fish shows since the early 20’s. In Queensland the R.N.A. (EKKA) has had a fighter class from around that time and other shows such as the Redlands Show, the Beenleigh Show, The Pet and Animal Expo’s and the Caboolture Shows have all had classes for Fighters / Anabandits.

Betta only shows as such are a different kettle of fish.

The first International Betta Show held in Australia, was held in Brisbane at the Pet and Animal Expo in March 2005. There were over 300 entries of which about 200 came from overseas and it was judged under IBC rules but not by IBC Judges.

At this time there were no IBC Judges in Australia, someone and Todd became IBC Judges soon after.

someone and Todd did all of the organising and had help from a few of the Betta Australis members that were around at that time.

The next Betta Show was held a part of the Caboolture Show in June 2005 and again there were some international entries. This show only had about 140 entries and was again judged under IBC rules but not by IBC Judges. I know this as I was one of them.

The R.N.A. (EKKA) followed in August with around 200 entries, again about 100 international. Once again someone and Todd did most of the organisation and work. And by the end of the show were very stressed out.

The following year everything died down. There was no Pet and Animal Expo, the Caboolture Show and the R.N.A. (EKKA) both had much smaller numbers approx. 30 entries in each of the shows, and eventually everything went back to the previous FBAS judging system.

There were attempts to get Betta Shows going in other states with little or no success. Two attempts that I remember were a Melbourne show for February 2006 and a Penrith Pet and Animal Expo in November 2006 both of these did not happen.

As for any Betta Shows since then I am only aware of a few club meeting night shows that have taken place nothing on any real scale.

So we come to this year and the rebirth of Betta Australis.

Once again Betta Australis are trying to get a Betta show scene going.

It started with a small fighter show as part of this year’s Caboolture Show. The show had about 40 entries and while it was judged under FBAS guidelines, it was really only to allow new members of Betta Australis to learn how shows operate.

The R.N.A. (EKKA) also had 10 entries from members of Betta Australis, again good experience and a chance to promote the September show.

That is where we are now.

The Show is on in 2 weeks. Entries start getting benched in next Friday 7th September.

Currently there are approximately 120 entries of which about 100 are international and the rest local.

If you want to enter any fish, you need to get your entries in as soon as possible. It does not matter if they are Show stoppers or not, the main thing is to make sure we have as big a display as possible.

This show is being held in the Caboolture Showgrounds in conjunction with the Caboolture Markets, which are one of the largest markets in S.E. Qld, and will be open to viewing by the public on Sunday 9th September from 5.00am to 1:00pm.

Even if you do not enter, come along and have a look if you get a chance.

Graeme.