Masquerade Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Hi to start of I'm not entirely sure if this is the right forum, I figured that because it does concern Beta's then it would be alright. If I'm wrong then I apologize and feel free to move this to somewhere more suitable. To begin at the beginning, I was chatting with some people on another forum when the topic of pets came up and for a while I chatted to the people about my fish and Yabby, which reminded me that I still had to change my tank's water for the day so I promptly left to do that. I gave him some feed while I was at it, and when I returned to the chatroom I said "I gave those fish some peas. Fishes love peas." in a reference to the meme " I got that b**** some -blank- B****es love -blank-" (note that most of the humour in this meme is either derived from the context or an image the words are superimposed over) A user who was not there before immediately launched into a long string of questions concerning what type of fish I had, how much I had given them, if there was seasoning on the peas etc, etc. The questions were phrased like warnings however, and the whole lot was capped of with something along the lines of; "fish have much smaller stomach's than you would think, you have to be careful not to overdose" Now this peeved me a bit, but I chalked it up to meme ignorance and told him that I a) had yabby and bristlenosed catfish and b) I gave them only two plain, organic, garden peas. That seemed to calm him down and he stated that he had done a lot of research when he had looked after his SISER'S betta fish (not his own, remember that point) and was appalled by the ignorance held by most betta owners. I replied to this, already disinterested, with the statement that I had owned a betta once, keeping it in a nice heated little 5 litre tank, but it had died of finrot. I then went on to say that I couldn't have betta's anymore because I got a new 65 litre tank which has too much current for betta's. I really wish I hadn't said that. He was off like a rocket, lecturing me about how 5 liters was way too small for betta's, telling me about their natural habitat, about their diet. He told me that I should use medication in my water, that I should get a lager tank so that the water temperature would be more stable. He even "suggested" (his language was so tense that it felt more like an order, the same way that suggested study essays are "optional") that I upgrade my 5 litre tank to a 20 litre so that my fish would be healthier. All I could think was "Is this guy for real?" I had specified from the start that I no longer owned a betta and had no intention what so ever of getting another one and yet he lectured me as I I had only just brought one home and had asked for his advice, which he was giving in a very self superior way. Half way through the rant I picked my jaw up from the floor and said something along the lines of "Look, your facts are right but I don't own a betta any more and I already specified that... I know how to care for my fish properly so can you please stop?" To which he relied "lol, but just one more" and then he finished his rant, as if I hadn't said anything at all. What the heck just happened? Can you even READ? I mean, if he wanted to have a discussion about the mistreatment of pet fish, or about how awesome fish are then that's fine, I'd be all for it in fact. But it wasn't a conversation, he just talked and talked at me in the most patronizing way and I doubt he read a word I wrote past the words "I owned a betta" which he took as license to lecture me. Have you guy's ever met someone like this? Have you ever talked to someone something like this? I just don't get what the heck was going through this guy's head, the only credentials he claimed to have was from babysitting his sisters fish, not a phd in ecological studies or anything like that. Why do people act like that, I just don't get it! Ok that feel's better now it's out of my system, thanks for listening. Edited February 4, 2012 by Masquerade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournebetta Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 i have a really great saying for people like that - but it wouldn't be appropriate for this forum. you know most people only start conversations so they can talk about themselves - and the most interesting thing they can think about - is themselves. (how to make friends and influence people 101) best skill i ever did learn in my 31 years was when to spend energy on people, and when not to. its a wonderful thing. x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_and_a_day Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 haha yeah there are people out there like that... personally i just think that kind of attitude makes promoting adequate levels of care to fish (especially bettas) even more difficult think we can all take a note from Ness' book, plug our ears and just let'em rant. best skill i ever did learn in my 31 years was when to spend energy on people, and when not to. its a wonderful thing. x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiameseFightingFist Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 The way of the Siamese Fighting Fist ... is probably too violent for this forum. But otherwise Ness is right. Or, if you know you're absolutely right, go for the verbal kill and lay down some indisputable facts, backed up by links to approved references, and then let him/her continue to humiliate themselves if they wish to. Because at least any beginner reading your posts will learn the correct fishkeeping tips rather than listening to the troublemaker's tripe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbites Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 that person sounds like one of those ****knuckle save the world from bad fighting fish owners who were running around last year full of ignorance and crazy ideas.... Just ignore them and tell them to go back to their sand pit and come back after they've grown up :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yanagi Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 This is why everyone loves the AusAqua forum so much, LOL. A lot of other forums are full of condescending brats who think they're somebody because they read a book/website once. You have more restraint than me, I most likely would of gone out of that forum with a bang and a permanent IP ban, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masquerade Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) The odd thing is that he was 27 years old, or at least he should have been because it was an 18+ forum and that was the age listed in his profile, you think he might have learned how to be a bit less bratty and a have a few more social skills. I mean, I'm autistic and even I have more social skills than him by this point in my life. And just out of interest, is a 5 litre tank too small for one betta? last time I checked 1 gallon per fish was good enough. Edited February 4, 2012 by Masquerade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbites Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 27 or not... there are wankers out there who will always consider their minute amount of knowledge/experience is superior to those with far more substance..... as for 5 litre tank size..... its ok...... the bigger the better though..... the more water in a tank the more stable the water conditions / temp/ less frequent water changes / etc will be..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachSlices Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 that person sounds like one of those ****knuckle save the world from bad fighting fish owners who were running around last year full of ignorance and crazy ideas.... are you reffering to that facebook page? its so stupid... Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Ugh, so sorry you had to deal with this! It's a real pain - and there are lots of people like that out there, unfortunately. Agree with the above - sometimes you just can't seem to say anything that makes them stop, just let them rant.. Another reason why I love this forum - won't get that business here. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournebetta Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 The whole discussion really lends it's self to personal opinion, there is no rule of thumb - because these fish could probably live in 500ml of water their whole life. They're going to hate it, but if their basic needs are met (shelter/water/food) they'll live.... just like we'd live in a casket if we had air, food, water... I suppose it's more about what size tank the fish need to replicate their optimum lifestyle and maintain mental stimulation & encourage natural behaviours. It's also a tricky question because because often different people's circumstances dictate the space their fish get allocated.... Not to say the needs of the fish are dictated by what someone can afford spatially and economically, but based on the situation. For example I breed Betta, at times I will have 50+ juveniles sitting in 1 litre upright beanie boxes - so I need to heat them, feed twice a day, and water change every second day. I don't mind this at all - as their water quality is high, needs are met - and this is a short term housing solution so they can grow into sale-able size. (The Thai's keep theirs in 800lt!! & they do daily water changes...) Otherwise my breeders (standard HM males) are each in 9 litre barracks with shared water, heating and regular food - to me this is excessive, but the fish are happy. But for all intents and purposes, if you have ONE betta - what's the point in putting it in anything less than 4 litres? You still have to heat it, filter it, water change it and look after it. Everyone has a minimum capacity.... and the Victoria Betta group are about to put online their basic care sheet for betta - this recommends 5 lt as a minimum for display fish. amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishball7 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Lol. This happens everywhere, especially in forums. I like to be very lightly stocked and have ample space for myself and my animals (eg four bedroom house for two people and other pets; a pair of smaller wild bettas in a 80 litre tank). It's very common for people to ignore your post and just say what they have read from other people (ad infinitum). I have had first hand of super hostility from betta people in a few forums about an idea. A bloody idea. And people went on at me like it was real. Managed to have my thread closed down too because people, albeit Americans, couldn't or didnt read what I wanted or didn't want and worked themselves into a frenzy. As my partner truly believes, "people are stupid." that guy included, so it's okay. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishball7 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Double post Edited February 9, 2012 by Fishball7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishball7 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Triple post! Another reason why i hate iPad. Edited February 9, 2012 by Fishball7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yanagi Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 I can bet which forum all of this took place on. Bunch of freaking nutbags those people are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masquerade Posted February 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Actually it wasn't a pet based forum at all, if that's what you're thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yanagi Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 I was referring to Fishball7's post, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masquerade Posted February 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Oh, double sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishball7 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 I can bet which forum all of this took place on. Bunch of freaking nutbags those people are. Lmao. They are ultimately very closed minded. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yanagi Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 They're just freaking nutty over bettas and their welfare. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neffy Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) I had that happen to me on a diff forum as well i got beserkafied at, it was the oposite situation someone said a tiny cup in a fishshop was the same as a bettas natural enviroment, i wasnt very pushy and tried to be friendly in pointing out that it wasnt but they didnt take it well, i tried discussing it based on my own research but to no avail i got labled a peta activist and told i shouldnt keep fish if that was my viewpoint =/ I never went back lol Edited February 9, 2012 by Neffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bethbot Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 I appreciate peoples advice, but sometimes I think people mix up what is factual and idealogical/opinion - I've had people hassle me because my cats are indoors only. I am fast approaching the opposite end of the argument. I played middleman for someone who couldn't pick up an order at time of arrival. The person asked my advice on their care when they picked them up, I was horrified to to learn that this person didn't know to de-chlorinate water and had never even heard of PH, I also had to explain that they couldn't be kept in the same tank permanently without separation/divider. So I answered their questions and gave them some IAL. This person has then gone on to breed the bettas, they sent me a message to say they had eggs. I politely asked if they were all ready for when they hatch. They hadn't thought about it, and didn't know what they ate etc. So I offered one of my mature MW cultures. It's been several days since they hatched and the person hasn't fed the fry, and although had been in contact messaging me, hadn't organised to pick up the MW. I think I may just have to cut contact before I say something unkind to them. I really don't want to be one of those people who hassle someone over their fish, especially since I probably do plenty of things 'wrong", its just painful as they were so pretty (and expensive), and the person has been asking me questions but is obvious they have still not done any research themselves. I think it's getting to me a little because I've seen the fish in the flesh, they don't just live on the internet (fish pictures online = the internets fish hehe). What would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masquerade Posted February 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Get cranky very quickly. But if you go to those lengths to help them and they can't be stuffed to help themselves then I would probably just let them make mistakes. I know that sounds cruel and if I could take the fish away and treat them properly then I would, but you can't. In my experience, people like that won't learn or take anything seriously until something goes wrong, and when it does they might start to take things more seriously and treat the people who try to help hem with a bit more respect. How old was this person? I may not be a knowledgeable person but I knew that tap water was bad for fish at the age of 7 and I knew ph by the age of 12, you can't go through high school these days without learning that. Edited February 11, 2012 by Masquerade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bethbot Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 I think you may be right, if they can't be bothered even picking up the food (which I told them not pay me anything for), I really shouldn't bother helping them. I am bad at guessing ages, but I think they were early teens. They seemed very enthusiastic and excited about breeding them, but not all that interested in the details of care. Poor fishes, I would fishnap them if I could. If at any point they decide its too much effort, I will offer to buy them I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 I wouldn't buy them, by that stage the fish won't be in great condition. When problems do arise, as i am sure they will, they will probably blame you and your advice. You asked what I would do.............cut all ties and forget about it. World is full of these people. :-(. Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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