splendidbetta Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Hi All A while ago I was asking for advice for a planted spawn/fry tank. Jess posted a photo of a wonderful bare-bottom planted tank. The plants were potted in jars containing gravel. A very nice effect, and especially suitable for a spawning/fry tank which needs regular cleaning. Well, here is my first attempt at a bare-bottom planted tank. In my opinion, the jars are too big, and I need to get more plants. I will most likely go and get a 6-pack of those small glass cups for $2 at IGA and use them as pots instead of the jars. I still need to get some fertilisers, but I am saving the rest of my $$$ for some bettas off aquabid. The tank is currently being fishless cycled, and has a Fluval 2 filter set on full flow rate. This will be turned off for the first week of fry life. If the filter is turned off, will the bacteria in the filter die? There are 2 small bunches of Java ferns, 2 Wistera, and 4 bunches Elodea. I should have bought more Wisteria, but now, when the elodea dies, I will replace it with Wisteria. What do you think about my setup? It still needs a lot more work, though :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted October 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Looks Good Stefan!! BIG jars! You will have to put that filter into another tank while its not needed, you cant exactly just turn it off, the bacteria dies and the cycle will start again with the fry in the tank! You will most likely loose the elodia, it is a coldwater plant, i know i and many others have not had it survive in tropical water, mabey you can take it back to the petshop and see if they will do a swap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambo Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Looks Good Stefan!! BIG jars! You will have to put that filter into another tank while its not needed, you cant exactly just turn it off, the bacteria dies and the cycle will start again with the fry in the tank! You will most likely loose the elodia, it is a coldwater plant, i know i and many others have not had it survive in tropical water, mabey you can take it back to the petshop and see if they will do a swap? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Surely not all the bacteria dies. if you keep it in water some of the bacteria should survive, it just won't be as 'optimal' as it could be if turned on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 you're right stefan, the jars are too big. They are so deep that I can imagine anaerobic bacteria thriving in them, producing toxic gas and creating possible effects of stagnation. You don't really want the gravel in the jars to be any deeper than it would be if it was a layer of gravel in the borrom of the tank. the filter bacteria will die if you turn it off. It needs O2 circulating in the water as it is aerobic. You will still have some, on surfaces etc, but what's in the filter will mostly die, actually producing ammonia. I think that is too big a power filter for a fry tank anyway, IMHO. A large sponge filter would be much better and would take up as much space. Don't expect to get the plant growth you'd get from a tank with a lot of CO2 though, if your tank has bubbles from a sponge filter. I know you're trying to strike a happy medium but you need to decide is it primarily a fry tank, or a planted tank? there are contra-indications for each in the other, mainly if you want lots of filtration. If you had a very lush growing unfiltered planted tank which was well estabished long before adding bettas i think you'd be best off. The plants will absorb a lot of waste and beneficial bacteria will develop on the surfaces if you do a fishless cycle before adding the pair. If you used black sand as a substrate it would help minimise the risk of eggs falling into gravel and being lost. Just an idea. Many of my spawns have been raised in tanks wih lots of plants and surfaces for bacteria to grow (eg scourers) but no filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Well, all I want is a well-filtered spawning/fry tank, with lots of plants. I should be able to get those glasses by Wednesday and replace the jars with them. Thats what I thought too...anaerobic bacteria in the jars. About the filter, I will most likely end up running a sponge filter or 2 in the tank during the first 2 weeks of the fry' lives. If they are still too small to handle the Fluval on low flow rate, I will wait a few more weeks before puting it in, with a stocking to cover the intake slots. Where can I get large sponge filters from? I mean LARGE... While the filter is not in the fry tank, it should be ok in a 15 litre tank and being fed ammonia to keep the bacteria alive. I got the Fluval 2 because in my previous spawn, my tank params went berserk, not being able to cope with so many growing fry and water changes only made it worse. So hopefully the Fluval will be useful for when the fry get larger and start producing more waste. The outside of the glasses and the surface gravel should be great for bacteria to grow, plus the rocks that I have in there. A sponge air driven filter would disturb the surface of the water with bubbles, allowing any Co2 produced to escape into the atmosphere. Is there such a thing as a non-air- driven sponge filter? Also, couldnt I get Co2 tablets or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 I dont want a substrate on the bottom of the tank for the simple reason that it will be difficult to clean 200+ fry' waste from it. So that Idea is out of the question. At least with glass cups I can take the plants out for water changes and siphon the bottom easier. Lisa: How large is your average spawn? how often do you get a spawn containing more than 150 fry? If you often do get such large spawns, you will know how difficult it is to keep the water at a constant, optimum quality when you have so many fry eating, urinating, pooping, and exhaling. I simply cannot see how a large spawn can be raised without any kind of filtration:notsure: And out of the 5 spawns that I have raised past 13 weeks, only 1, my first successfull spawn, contained 17 fry. All the rest had over 150 fry. So that is how I must prepare myself for spawns...think big spawns Thanks guys, any one else have other ideas? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 You could search for a very small powerhead and attach that to the tube on the sponge filter, i have done it before and it works really well You can also put some stocking over the outlet of the powerhead to help difuse the flow and that will stop there being a current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 You could search for a very small powerhead and attach that to the tube on the sponge filter, i have done it before and it works really well <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How does that work What do I need to do that and how do I do it? do I need a pump? thanks ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Looks good Stefan, you've been busy!! Maybe use a corner filter, that way you can easily slow the flow rate etc. Little pots of crypts would be good too. Thought about those little jam jars you can get at the supermarket? they are about 60c, including the jam they could be a good idea. Try not using plants that need lots of attention for your fry tank. Only use easy plants that don't require Co2. It's best to have a dedicated tank for plants if you want the high care plants. Sponge filter, small pots, easy to care for plants is the way you should be going for a fry tank. In my opinion (Which is all about being lazy, but with results ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Thanks Jess Nah, it will take too long to eat the jam, and I can get 12 small glass cups for $4 to use as pots. I aint getting another sponge/corner filter unless I can find a massive one As for low maintanence easy plants, I thought java ferns, java moss, and Wisteria dont really need all the extra stuff to get them going nicely? I mean, come on, what more could they need when they are feeding off the wast of 100+ growing fry? and being right next to a sunny window...and any extra frozen food nutrients that dissolve into the water? A bit of extra ferts occasionally should be enougfh right? Thanks ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbies Betta Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Once you get the smaller jars/pots I reckon it'll look great Stefan is it alright to use liquid ferts (pond fertilisers) in betta tanks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Stefan, to answer your question, I don't ever get spawns that exceed 100 fry - thank God. But this seems to be because my pairs just don't produce that many eggs in the first place, not because I don't filter my tanks or maintain the water. I have not noticed any difference in the size of spawns I raise between the filtered and non-filtered tanks. I like to think its quality over quantity anyway. Only 2 of my 10 breeding tanks are not filtered BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 PS: edie doesn't vacuum his tanks, and I have never seen so many fry in 1 tank as I saw in his gold CT fry tank, which I'm sure wans't filtered either. I'm not sure that cleanliness is next to godliness when it comes to raising fry. But each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Lisa, I didnt mean that you dont get so many fry because of poor filtration/water quality etc... I meant that, basically I seem to be cursed when it comes to fry numbers, and I always end up with massve spawns And each time, even with filteres, my tank water quality goes str8 to the dump by week 7 So I definately need filtration (more) and a bare, easy to clean, bottom tank. Thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callatya Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 If you turn the flow down on the 2+ and face the outlet towards the wall, and cover the entire bottom section in a stocking, you *may* get away with it, but those devils are strong (stronger than an AC200, thats why i got it) so a powerhead on a sponge filter might be the best plan Shallower pots would be great, and the java fern doesn't even need tobe potted if you dont want Sand is easy to clean if you want to go that way, you just waggle a syphon over the top of it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Thanks Abbey But where do I get a power head for the sponge filter? And what does it look like? is it attached to a pump? Also, where can I find massive sponge filters? Um, would making the outlet tube of the fluval 2 decrease the flow intake rate? Thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Stefan, have you looked at one of the on-line aquarium suppliers? I'm sure if you browse a catalogue you'll find something that fits the bill if you want a bigger sponge filter. Alternatively ask at your LFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callatya Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 There is a blue slider bar on the front of the 2+, move it to the left. Decreasing the output side probably won't do much. You need a powerhead with a little cone section, and a standard black cylinder powerhead. You'll probably need a 201, but here is the 301 Powerhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbies Betta Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Abbey, any chance of a description on how to set it up? even in the DIY section? I'd love to do that, as I've got a spare power head and would love to put it to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 You basically stick the powerheads suction section on the top of the sponge filters uplift tube. Obviously you will need one with a nice wide tube on it, you may need to use the cone or might not need to. Just get a small pump :cheer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 There is a blue slider bar on the front of the 2+, move it to the left. Decreasing the output side probably won't do much. You need a powerhead with a little cone section, and a standard black cylinder powerhead. You'll probably need a 201, but here is the 301 Powerhead. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I killed $100 on the Fluval and the plants, I dont think I can spare $50 on a powerhead if I am to buy a HM pair anytime soon Do they come cheaper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/ look under powerheads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 .............. You will most likely loose the elodia, it is a coldwater plant, i know i and many others have not had it survive in tropical water, mabey you can take it back to the petshop and see if they will do a swap? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have elodia in one of my heated tanks with a normal houshold lightbulb above the tank, i actually have to harverst it every couple of weeks so my fish dont have to do backflips over it to get to their food, it is one of the few plants that i havent killed..............quickly. With the filter you could disperse the water flow a bit if you get a long bit of pipe (eg. PVC hose or gravel filter hose) block off the end (or kink it) and put in heeps of largish holes about 3mm wide, (yes it would be time consuming) then attach it to the end of the filter outlet, you would have to be careful, if you dont put in enough holes you could put too much stress on the filter (ive nevr done this B4 so I dont know what exactly it could do) what i am actually trying to suggest is a system similar to this: (this one was on ebay for $17) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted October 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Thanks Jess I need to start looking up things myself a bit more Which one do you think I should get? http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod544.htm or http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod864.htm Should they come with the "cone" ?? This is the filter it will be attached to: http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod465.htm and I will be getting about 3 replacement sponges :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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