jamal Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 I have a friend who recently bought a Paradise fish and she was wondering if it would happily live in her 38l unheated tank. It is a male by the way (i've heard they grow larger than the females). Thanks, Japelno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenR60 Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Yes the paradise Fish is a Cold water fish, I have them breeding outside and the Temp gets down to under 10C Males grow to around 100mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghengis Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 ...are they really a coldwater fish?? I thought they, like all gourami's, were a tropical species...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted November 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Thanks KenR60! wow! ten degrees! i thought they were tropical too Ghengis!. She has this little 'pond' thingy outside, (i don't know the exact capacity but i'm guessing around the 50l mark) and is thinking about putting him in there (much, much prettier than her tank) but was worried he would not be able to overwinter out there without a heater. Would he? (i am assuming KenR60's pond is larger and deeper than 50l) Thanks, Japelno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marianne Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 I think the tank is a little on the small side, would be fine for a small one, but when it gets bigger it would need a bigger tank, hopefully the small tank won't stunt its growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Small tanks don't stunt a fish's growth..... Lack of water changes will stunt fish growth ie fish will grow faster in a 40l tank with 5/20l water change per week than fish kept in a 200 litre tank with one 100l water change per week and you use no more water! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghengis Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 ^concur^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenR60 Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Thanks KenR60! wow! ten degrees! i thought they were tropical too Ghengis!. She has this little 'pond' thingy outside, (i don't know the exact capacity but i'm guessing around the 50l mark) and is thinking about putting him in there (much, much prettier than her tank) but was worried he would not be able to overwinter out there without a heater. Would he? (i am assuming KenR60's pond is larger and deeper than 50l) Thanks, Japelno I have around 6 of them in my Pond and they have bred at least once. Pond is between 450-500mm in Depth and 11 metres long so plenty of space. Rod, very interesting about the Fish Growth, I too always thought it was the size of the container they were in so thanks for sharing that valuable peice of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted November 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 WOW! Really Rod? i never knew that! Thanks! KenR60, i think she may need a heater if she opts for the pond. Plus she told me its 42l not 50l so thats even worse. Marianne, my friend told me that when she asked at the LPS they said she could keep him in a 5l tank! Luckily she knew better than to trust those horrible people. Is it really too small? KenR60 said his males only grow to 10cm.... Anyway, Rod, does that mean could keep 2 single-tailed goldfish in 40l if you did really frequent water changes? (im trying everything to help my fish in their awful situation) Thanks, Japelno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billphil Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 Japelno Yes two single tail goldfish will survive quite happily in a 40 litre tank with frequent water changes. How frequent and how much? Depends on many factors but I would get a nitrate test kit and monitor nitrate levels and do water changes to keep nitrates either below 20ppm or below twice the nitrate concentration in your tap water. Be assured with regular water changes and keeping the water cool (under 18C most of the time so that the fish are not exactly a poo factory) you can keep your two friends in 40 litres of water. They will be content. Fish farms usually have massive numbers of fish in small spaces but manage the situation by doing very regular (well, continuous) water changes without the need for any filtration etc. BTW we can legally only get male paradise fish in Australia. Oh yeah.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenR60 Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 BTW we can legally only get male paradise fish in Australia. Oh yeah.... I remember back in the 80's I think when they stopped selling both the Female Paradise Fish and also the Female Rosy Barbs. I was fortunate enough to get a female from a batch of young paradise in a LFS and they bred last year. I asked lots of forums about the legal side of this and all answers were if I wasn't selling the Females but giving them away then all was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billphil Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 I asked lots of forums about the legal side of this and all answers were if I wasn't selling the Females but giving them away then all was fine. Actually one just has to llok in LFS in Melbourne to find females swimming around happily. I think another one of these unthought of Government decisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 I asked lots of forums about the legal side of this I'd be cautious what you post on a public forum about having - or giving away - fish you're (possibly) not meant to have. An AquariumLife member has just been 'raided' by AQIS for having plants he bought from someone on ebay (within Australia) which aren't allowable imports. Forums are often a rich source of misinformation, so I don't know if it's safe to assume that the answers you got were correct. Just a thought. I hope the advice you got was correct :welcome: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenR60 Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 I'd be cautious what you post on a public forum about having - or giving away - fish you're (possibly) not meant to have. An AquariumLife member has just been 'raided' by AQIS for having plants he bought from someone on ebay (within Australia) which aren't allowable imports. Forums are often a rich source of misinformation, so I don't know if it's safe to assume that the answers you got were correct. Just a thought. I hope the advice you got was correct Hello Lilli, Forums too are sometimes the only way we can find these things out too, better to be sure and ask questions then find later you've done something that could get you in trouble. When I first noticed my Paradise Fish had a Bubblenest of Eggs I posted on AL and other forums asking it I could continue or did I have to destroy the nest and eggs. Lots said it would just be bubbles so I posted photos showing the bubbles with the eggs. I didn't want to find I did something illegal and this was the best method of finding out. Asking your LFS sometimes isn't too successful as half of them don't know what fish are even illegal or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghengis Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 Asking your LFS sometimes isn't too successful as half of them don't know what fish are. Fixed :welcome: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenR60 Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 Fixed LOL ya Reckon??? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Forums too are sometimes the only way we can find these things out too, better to be sure and ask questions then find later you've done something that could get you in trouble. Hi Ken That's my point - you can't be sure the info you get is correct. I'm not suggesting don't ask questions!! I am a huge believer in asking questions. But there are a lot of bush lawyers out there that can sound like they know exactly what they're talking about, and they can be hard to distinguish from the people who actually DO know what they're talking about. I totally agree that it's important to make enquiries and go to as many sources as possible and draw your own conclusions based on the logic and quality of the information you get. But I have unfortunately (or fortunately, from the POV of folks who don't like me! ) personally been on the receiving end of trouble-makes who would love to seize upon the fact that I might have an illegal in my fish room (I don't, FWIW!) and report me to someone to make my life difficult. I know of one individual in particular - not a member here - who would be inclined to behave that way, and I am not the only person on his hit list. So I guess my point is it can pay to be careful how you describe what's going on in your tanks if it is maybe not totally legal, so nobody can make trouble for you. A sad way to have to approach things, but unfortunately for me and several others, a fact of life now! Sorry, I probably sound preachy, paranoid and condescending and that certainly wasn't my intention!!! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 I'd have no fear about breeding,raising,selling paradise fish..... Technically under Queensland Fisheries Legislation you are supposed to have a permit to keep any fish NOT on the allowable import list....other than Australian Natives but I don't believe they enforce this legislation....plenty of fish are sold in LFS,at auctions ,and on line that are not on the list.....New Guinea Rainbows, lots of cichlids,Endler's guppies....etc etc They simply don't have the resources and have bigger fish to fry...(pun intended) At the present.....They are more interested in policing illegal fishing and noxious fish....than the odd hobbyist with a batch of paradise fish which is perfectly logical pursuit in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenR60 Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Sorry, I probably sound preachy, paranoid and condescending and that certainly wasn't my intention!!! Hey Lilli, I fully understand what you were saying, sad to hear people out there are out to make trouble for those like us who are always happy to help anyone. Agree with the amount of information out there can be mis-leading, even Googling can give you multiple answers and like with the forums we just have to read through the crap and pick out the bits that do actually sound true. Once my Paradise were discovered breeding I was desperate to know if what I was doing was considered Legal or Not and felt the forums would have the answers. Rod, I think one day we'll all have to pay something to someone for the enjoyment for keeping our Fish, someone will find a way to tax us or make us pay a yearly fee which is sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbites Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Lisa... an AusAqua member has also been raided for the same reason the AL member has been / is going to be. Rod re the permits - there are permits as you say for anyone undertaking aquaculture activities (IE breeding fish) but it's not required unless you go outside the norm or have a large scale setup. Ken - at the moment Qld's permits are free - as are permits to grow protected native plants (or to collect them) but maybe some day there will be a fee and hopefully not too much or the hobby will quickly go underground which will make it harder to protect our native species or all but die out which would be a tragedy. I guess the real issue is do what we can to keep things out of native waterways and not break the current rules or we will end up having stronger rules and fees imposed I'm sure. Plain English lists of what we can have / can't have and clear rules that are easy to read and understand would be a great start - too much legalese and interpretations only serve to confuse us (well me at least!) - but when in doubt - don't.... Not sure if any of that made sense... but ... for those with paradise fish - seen some with very nice colours and hope they thrive for you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Lisa... an AusAqua member has also been raided for the same reason the AL member has been / is going to be. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Rod re the permits - there are permits as you say for anyone undertaking aquaculture activities (IE breeding fish) but it's not required unless you go outside the norm or have a large scale setup. Hi Wayne That maybe the intention....but it's not what is written??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbites Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 True there Rod... I've had quite a few conversations with Qld Fisheries people and they are even confused... for example... They told me that all of the aquaculture facility I was enquiring about should be under a roof - but my pond isn't so they said it should be to prevent rain causing the pond to overflow and fish to be picked up by birds and deposited in streams. When I asked do I need walls they said no. So then I asked what if the rain comes in at an angle and overflows the pond - they suggested this was fine but couldn't understand that birds don't care if the rain is vertical or at an angle so why have a roof as long as the fish can't escape or be picked out by birds!!! As I said - we need plain English rules that don't confuse us or the officials who try to enforce them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbygodz Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 I breed Endler's...........come and get me. -Brad. :welcome: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 You're safe! you are in Sydney.... :welcome: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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