Breeding tank help

[Mango4Jade]

Ok, I have decided to breed Edie's pair of Platinum Red SDs. Edie has confirms that the female is a nice 8ray. Now just need to know what I need in a breeding tank. I've got a 18inch tank and a small heater. What else should I put in the tank? Plants, filter etc? Also at what temp and what should the procedures be for conditioning them and breeding them etc?

Ive only bred bettas once, but that was quite some time ago...just need some help here and it should be all cool.

Best Regards Always

Mango

[Callatya]

OK, some piccies to help.

Don't copy me, i'm actually pretty ordinary at breding

Smaragdina spawning tank

Female inside bottle that has mesh on to stop her jumping out and a rock to stop her pushing it over (they tried to)

Successful spawn, but I wasn't happy with the layout.

Current layout Sportcar spawn.

The fry have hatched, thats why there is a dustmask in there (BBS filter )

The sand seems to work better than a bare bottom and the bubblewrap works better than the 1/2 cup.

Bubblewrap goes bumpy side down

When the female goes in, I put her in a bottle with lots of holes in it, so they can flirt, but not maul

HTH :)

[Bettamuse]

I like the plastic plant idea. good cover and they will not die back in low light and pollute the tank. Also make sure you have your micro food sorted out before spawning your fish. Betta fry starve to death very quickly so as soon as they become free swimming they should be fed. Infusoria size foods the first 4 days and then onto slightly larger foods like NH brineshrimp and micro worms.

[Callatya]

Thats exactly why I started using the plastic plants as the others just shed and died. Plus this lets me sterilise the entire tank between spawns if needs be. (and it was necessary once when those cambo fry got those bloody heads and started expolding! )

[Chuckie]

make sure the tank stays around 28C (don't know if 18" is too small for a heater?) and use a sponge filter. Cycle the tank with the sponge filter on, or run it for a week or so in an established tank. Add the male and leave hime for a few days so he gets the idea that it's his tank, and don't condition the male and female in sight of each other - familiarity breeds contempt. Once you introduce the pair, use a valve to turn the sponge filter down to 1 -2 bubbles per second and leave it that low until the fry are at least 2 weeks old. Bubble wrap is an excellent nesting medium. I prefer live plants for the infusoria element. Java moss has been virtually indestructible in my tanks even in low light. I think you can probably get some from Jodi-Lea . I also use hornwart (is that what it's called, Phil?). I also use live snails for the infusoria reason. Once the fry get big enough they kill the snails. Other thing I would add is indian almond leaf.

[Mango4Jade]

What foods are suitable for newly hatched fry?

[Callatya]

Infusoria is a good one for the first few days, then I move to VE and ten to BBS and then to chopped blackworms. I am steering clear of MW now because of the possibility that they cause problems with ventral fin development.

[Figure_8]

I go for Java moss for the infusoria too.. Low light isn't too much of a problem although I tend to treat the batch I put in the spawning tank as disposable. When I had a pond I used to chuck it in there to regenerate for a while before I reused it which seemed to work well.. otherwise I just ditch it when it gets manky after a few weeks.

[Chuckie]

nothing puts size on them like bbs. I use VE for the first 3 days, then bbs .

[Figure_8]

i go straight from infusoria to bbs. I've used mw's on occasion, but don't like the way they foul the water so easily (& GB doesn't like the smell )

[Jess]

Because you are in Melbourne and it is cold at nights, keep the tank off the ground as I have the problem in winter, that the lower part of the tank is colder, regardless of what height it is at. This is because with such small fry, there is not much water movement. (I use a sponge filter too) Last winter I havd a few spawns die of ich, the heater was set at 30C and the top half was 30C however the bottom was cold. (the heater was laid flat at the bottom also) I find a towel wrapped around the sides I find helps alot, as does using a plastic tub Good luck with the spawn, when is the big date?

[najrick]

I am steering clear of MW now because of the possibility that they cause problems with ventral fin development.

I use MW's all the time and never had a problem with ventrals not growing -- well not since the first spawn. The difference in my opinion is keeping the bottom clean since they are feeding off the bottom. Obviously you can't get in there every day and clean and siphon etc... but I think that if you throw in some good sized apple snails once they are free swimming then it stops the problem. They keep the bottom clean and eat all the uneaten food and I believe their waste helps promote infusoria. That first spawn I didn't use any snails and that has been the only addition since then.

I like lots of plants in one end of the tank firstly for the female to hide in but also to get infusoria and secondly for the first free swimmers to run to if dad gets a bit pedantic with chasing them and putting them in the bubble nest. Some kids just want to leave home early

We use mostly java moss and some soft artifical ones too. I don't use any filtration until they are at least free swimming and generally not for the first 7 to 10 days in any event. Then I allow a few bubbles slowly building it up with very gradual water changes

And they eat Infusoria first. Then MW's for the 1st week. Then after that a mix of BBS, MW and Daphnia (if they are in my buckets). Mostly BBS though. Then between 4 to 6 weeks I introduce finely chopped Bloodworms and if I can get them, very small mosquito larvae.

Aged water, cycled filter (sponge), conditioned parents and water temp at 28 degrees seem the common theme. Whether you use bubble wrap, a 1/2 foam cup or just floating plants is up to you ... well the male in the end i guess. I've tried bubble wrap a few times and they didn't use it. Ended up building the nest elsewhere either in the open or amongst some java moss. And yet when we use a 1/2 cup....without fail he will build his nest under that Try both if need be.

Anyway everyone has a slightly different variation to the same basics.

Cheers,

Pat.

[Chuckie]

if you throw in some good sized apple snails once they are free swimming then it stops the problem

Not contradicting you Pat, just adding some additional data on this. My famous Ventralless Spawn of 2004 was fed MW and had many snails in the tank, but admittedly they were not apple snails. But it also sounds like you don't feed the MW for long in any event. I fed them for much longer than a week as I didn't yet have a reliable source of bbs eggs. Now I have, thanks to Sharon and Jodi-Lea .

[Figure_8]

In the past I've fed mw's for an extended period of time & while I didn't get any ventralless fry I did get a grotty tank.. I was the Queen of the Overfeed though I think I never really knew how many were in the tank since I couldn't see them & then I'd get paranoid that there wasn't any in there or not enough so I'd feed them again ;)

[bakerman]

I use mw on all my spawns and dont seem to have much of a problem .But i dont put yeast in my cultures like a lot of people say .I just put them ontop of the fish tank and they seem to work fine .And changed on a regular basis so that any other bacteria doesnt have a big chance to multiply. Only use the worms off the side of the dish and they wont foul the water only when you accidently add some of the mix it is likely to foul the water .Like narjick said it is only when you dont seem to keep the base of the tank clean of debris that i seem to have a problem with missing venterals .Can i also suggest to run a bare bottom tank keep bacteria levels down to a minimum. Sorry lilli but that is how it seems to work for me. ;)

[Chuckie]

my tanks are all bare-bottom, and ironically back when I fed MW i also siphoned daily, and I also only used worms from the sides of the culture. weird. anyway, not a problem since I stopped using it. BTW, I raised about the first 10 of my spawns on MW, but only ever had one spawn grow up without ventrals. after that I switched to bbs.

[Najoha]

Just like to add VE as a very easy live food to have on hand. I only feed for the first couple of days maybe a week and good to have if the bbs fails and for little ones. At least i know they have something in their bellies.