beginner 3ft tank

[louu]

Ill give you some background info

I have successfully kept goldfish in a pond for a few years and successfully kept a fighting fish in a 5 ltr tank for a year (he is still going!)

For the past year I have been on and off researching various fish (though Im by no means an expert) but mostly bettas. 6 months ago I got my 3ft (roughly 150L)tank but have not been able to fill it due to chronic illness. I am making a solid recovery and am very excited to be moving out of home in a months time and will have a room dedicated to fish and sewing (shaping up to be my two hobbies) so basically I want to stock though first I have to cycle it and how my 21L tank is going that might prove difficult!

Ever since I have seen black widow/skirt tetras I have been drawn to them but I dont really know if they are a good beginner fish I figured some tetras would be a good place to start but my true love (though so far short lived) are tiger barbs some people say some terrible things about them but it would be a single species tank is this a reasonable goal? how hard are they to mantain I think they might be brackish water fish so that would be an extra challenge

I want something that I will be interested in for a long while to come which worries me about the tetras but I doubt I could handle Tiger Barbs

Im open to anything you believe Im capable of!

[fishbites]

Good to hear you're on the mend Louu....

The widow tetras are ok for beginners for sure... there's the black and the gold varieties.... but tend to be (in my opinion) a quiet and boring fish in terms of activity, antics, personality, etc....

A 3ft tank full of tiger barbs... you won't be short of movement in there! Barbs are nippy, speedy little things and have good colour. In a planted up tank they should look really good. In a single species tank a shoal of them would be great or you could mix in a few albino tiger barbs or a few of the other barbs with similar body shapes but different colours like the moss green's.... Don't forget a bristlenose or two for cleanup duties on the bottom of the tank....

Don't worry about brackish waster for the barbs - they do just fine in fresh clean water....

Why don't you think you could handle the tiger barbs? In a biggish group they are quite peaceful really.... only trouble would be trying to catch a single fish in a 3ft planted tank - they are FAST.... :)

[louu]

I just keep reading disaster stories about beginners mixing them with the wrong fish and what not and they just look so cool I guess I expected that there would be something in the way.

well thats all good to hear but I think I have only seen them maybe once and I stress the maybe how would I get a hold of them? Are they hard to buy?

Thanks for your help

oh also is there anything in particular I should know about them?

and also any other interesting fish ideas are appreciated :)

[fishbites]

The hardest part is getting the tank set up and cycled - oh and handing over the cash! LOL

Most aquarium shops have tiger barbs - they are pretty popular so might be worth ringing a couple to see if they still have any available or when their next shipment of fish comes in. Most shops will order some for you - specially if you are ordering a dozen or more (if they don't then just go to a shop that will). Just a hint with tiger barbs - sometimes they don't travel too well if they've had a delay in transit - wait till the fish have been in the store a couple of days just to make sure they have settled in - good fish stores will not sell you fish that have had a hard journey until they settle in.

Google probably will give you much better specific info on them but.... they're generally pretty easy to keep - just one thing - make sure you keep the lid on the tank - they get up a lot of speed and when they reach the surface it usually means they don't drop back into the tank!

Don't forget to show us some pics of the tank getting set up either :)

[blackworm]

Louu,

Barbs are lovely fish so here's what I know of them.

Every single book I've read on the subject describes them as a peaceful fish but whenever you ask a lot of guppy keepers about them they'll just stop short of calling them blood thirsty monsters. Truth is they like to bite long flowey fins (which funnily enough other fish sort of need).

Keeping them in a species tank should call for one gorgeous shoal though (with no pesky guppies or bettas as bad influences).

Have fun cycling that tank,

BWorm.

[Anasfire]

I kept tiger barbs with my small Oscar in a 4ft and they were gorgeous. They never bothered the Oscar and would just school together. They were quirky, always, ALWAYS moving and feeding time was great to watch as they'd have themselves a feeding frenzy.

Unfortunately I woke up one morning to find one of them missing and my 'small' Oscar with a large belly and one sticking out if it's mouth, tail end out so the poor tiger barb could see what was happening! I managed to get that barb out of the Oscar's mouth and they were moved into my 3ft community tank. They managed to kill all the guppy's in there in very short order but I think that was because, like Fishbites said, they like to nip at long flowing tails. Plus they were down 1 member of their shoal and if they are kept in numbers lower than 5 or 6 they start to get aggressive with other fish, not having enough of their own species to keep the fighting between themselves.

[louu]

Thats all very interesting to hear and hasnt deterred me so far! But I am reconsidering the idea of later down the track adding one larger fish but at the moment I wouldnt because I am quite under experianced and I think only have tigar barbs would look very pretty.

But just for interests sake are there any fish that I could add later on and what sort of charcteristics would I be looking for in that fish (aggressive, peaceful, big?)

Im actually really excited about this I have wanted to set up this tank for yonkers! And I have found a type of fish I really like!

Now all thats left to decide is the aquascaping so I will have to work it all out dont suppose you have any good guiding links? I dont have a clue about substrate and what not

But really thanks heaps for your help Im absolutely set now and cant wait till I get setup!

also I forgot to ask are they touchy fish or just ordinary so I mean if Im late on a water change will they keel over?

thanks lou

[Masquerade]

Im not sure if they would get along with tiger barbs but Dwarf Gouramis are very pretty and full of personality! When i wanted a feature for my 60 i picked up a coral blue gourami for $8.90 and two lady friends for around $6 each they entertained myself and each other with they're hijinx, i still have my male DG two years down the line. They come in lots of pretty colours too i once saw one that was completely crimson!

[louu]

yes I do rather like the gourami's and I would like to know more about them, are they difficult to keep? Can you keep two or more males together? (I have only ever seen males)

But I think that might be a goal for another time and tank as I would quite like a schooling tank and one day I might even have an angelfish tank but I figure thats a bit above me at the moment! lol

Does anyone know if I could have cory's with tiger barbs or would I be better off with a bristlenose and which of the two is easiest to keep?

The final touches are going on and I will be ready to move within a week or two! So give me time to cycle the tank and I will be posting some pics thanks for all your help!

[tlc33]

Good luck Lou, can't wait to see pics. :lol:

[louu]

Thanks for that Tracey!

[louu]

OK we had some set backs with the house I am moving into (renovations and heritage listed houses apparently dont mix) BUT we are currently moving furniture in, I even got my fish tank in YAY! so it (tank set up)is still happening!

SO to my current querie. I got thinking about the gourami's and while I love them all and often hum and hah about which I would like to keep. My favourite has always been the three spot gourami would this be a good mix? They are a larger fish so I'm guessing they could hold their own if I happen to get particularly nasty barbs but as long as I keep the numbers up that shouldn't be a problem, I think.

Since deciding it was for the better that I don't go down the shark route I think a gourami might be a better option

My other unrelated question is about angel fish, I was down at the fish shop and got talking to the guy about them (they had the lovliest marble juvies)and he made it seem so simple to keep them, varied diet, tall tank, good filter, weekly water change and so on. Now, I am aware that it's his job to sell me stuff. But is it possible that a fish keeper like me who hasnt actually owned that many fish but is very well read on the matter could have success at owning them? How touchy is touchy when they come to water quality? As in, will I be doing several water changes a week and have to have the absolute best (and most expensive)of filters?

anyway probably not going to happen but for future reference's sake how hard are angel fish to keep?

P.S I don't plan on mixing barbs and angelfish it would be one or the other for each tank

[louu]

actually scratch that the gourami's feeler things would get nipped wouldnt they? thats why you can't have barbs and angelfish together I'm pretty sure.

[kandeecane]

I have two male dwarf flame gouramis in a 2ft tank together and they seem to be ok....

But yeah... Tiger barbs are good in a species-only tank generally...

[tlc33]

Hi Lou, Just thowing in my few cents here. Whomever named the 'Angelfish' was one sarcastic $&*^()&)... If you get my drift. They are lovely on their own, in a big school, but I have had issues with them before. That said I have always had them in a community tank and I have only had 5 or 6 at a time. My tanks are not very big so that may have been part of the problem. I did lose my angels, I think to not good enough water quality, they didn't go all at once. Whilst I had them I found them to be quite aggressive at times towards the other tank mates.

[louu]

hmm well maybe a bit later when I am more capable to take care of water quality (when I have better betta setup) thanks a lot for the info it is very useful because to be honest with the number of animals I have at the moment I don't think it would work out. Still no harm in asking!

So I am back to the original plan to have a school of tiger barbs with maybe a BN or something like that I am only worried about how sensitive it is to water and all *will* have to do more research.

Thank you very very much for the info on angels my head is clear and straight now all I have to do is go to the shop and come back with the right fish!

[louu]

OKKKK I'm back.. again... I bet your getting sick of this thread! : S

Anyway I have a few dilemas after thinking 'It's time to set up that damned tank'

Number one I can't find a good source of ammonia. I guess I will have to cycle with fish. I have a pond going in so I could use the goldfish for that that would come from my mum (tough stuff you wouldn't believe what they have been through) but goodness knows when that will happen.. Any ideas?

Number two I am worried I will grow tired of tiger barbs before their time is up and I don't like giving animals to other people because you don't really know what will happen to them (ok maybe that is silly with fish) So I thought back to why I like betta's so much and more than their colour (though that's great too)I really enjoy their personalities. So I want something with personality that I will want to keep for the long haul... I like the way pink convicts look but I am a little unsure I wont be able to get a pair and wonder if one by itself would be lonely maybe something an inch or two larger? If anyone has any ideas please please let me know I am completely at a loss..

EDIT: Oopsy what I meant was can convicts live together wasn't sure

Edited September 28, 2010 by louu

[louu]

Hi again just a quick message to thank everyone who has helped me you really have been a great help and in a few ways more than you may think.

I have a 2 ft'r that I am going to cycle and use for tiger barbs they are such great little investigators (what I have seen of them) that I definately want them! So that leaves me with the 3 ft which I would actually really like to try my hand at angels.

So in short I am pig headed... But you really helped me realise that fish arnt that scarey

So now I am going to go cycle my tanks

and stop over at the other forums to work out filters

- lou

[Bettarazzi]

I recommend cycling the angels tank really well before adding them. They can be a bit more sensitive although they do seem hardier these days. Once you've got the tiger barbs tank going you could swap filters or use their filter media to seed the filter in the angels tank.

[Amberjade]

If you have a large shoal of tiger barbs - 8 plus - they are much more interested in chasing each other than other tankmates. LOL But yes, you would need other fish that will hold their own with tigers. I actually have juvi tigers and angels in my 3 ft tank (moving them to a 5ft soon) and there aren't any probs. Both fish need to be in decent groups, IME. Perhaps a larger gourami - but it all really depends on the individual fish. Some will get along, some won't. Fickle devils!

Angels are actually quite hardy, as long as the water is soft and slightly acidic. But they really do need to be in a group of 5-6, unless you have a breeding pair. Angels are cichlids, so they can get aggressive. They are also territorial.

For bottom feeders, cory's are great - they are entertaining, sweet and funny! BUT, your tank MUST be well established. They will not cope with a new tank. They can be really sensitive to nitrates, so keep them down. You need to keep 4-5 of them - they are shoaling fish as well. Bristlenose, on the other hand, are quite happy on their own.

For a centrepiece fish, have you looked into south american cichlids? A lot of them are beautiful (look at angels!) but peaceful - compared to their african cousins, anyway! Blue Acara's are beautiful - and hardy. They get to about 8in. And they can hold their own against tiger barbs. Or even convicts (which are actually central american) could work well.

Sorry for the long post! I get a bit carried away. LOL

Good luck!!!

Carls

[louu]

Hmm thats all very interesting! And I don't mind the long post at all it was full of good information!

I have two main problems that make me wonder if angels are a good choice. 1) I have extremely hard water ph of around 8 can't remember gh. and I don't fancy stained water from peat

I definitely want to get into cichlids and to be honest African cichlids. The ones that really take me are electric yellows (like them so much) the blue stripey ones.. there are so many.. and N. Brichardi (sp?) I had the idea well more of a day dream, of having a black tank with beautiful rocks set up like a coral reef and have simply yellows and then maybe down the track get some maybe johanni or demasoni although they are a bit more aggressive and I might need to overstock which probably wouldn't sit well with my lax water change regime.

I am not sure I already mentioned this but I want to get something I will keep for a long timne I don't think I have the heart to return fish to the pet shop were anything could happen to them! Which is why I am so keen on more advanced fish.

I don't have the means for many tanks so it would be good to get something that I will be interested in for a long while yet!

[louu]

I forgot to mention I got a 4ft tank so that sort of opens up a couple of options as far as fish that could live in there goes.

[Amberjade]

Africans are perfect for your water! Watch out with tiger barbs, plecos and cories tho - they like it soft. Do a search for mbuna set-ups. If you like labs (which I completely get!) then a mbuna biotope would be perfect! Use the 4ft for that. With the 3ft, maybe African butterfly fish....or you could get away wiyh central American cichlids like convicts - they can acclimatize to harder water much better than south Americans. . Good luck!

[louu]

Yeah I wasn't sure with the water thought it might be a problem! Hmm hmm hmm

[fishbites]

A good coloured up yellow lab is always popular and looks great - LFS's will buy excess off you as they sell pretty quickly....

Re the blue striped ones - only johannii males are blue/blackstriped, all juvies and females are yellow and the melanochromis species can be a bit aggressive at times (but then most mbuna are!).... maingano's are similar colours to the johannii males but both male and female maingano's are the same colour right from birth... and again they're a melanochromis species...

Now for demasoni.... often referred to as demons... for the size (up to about 10cm) they can be vicious little twerps - they will not only beat up their own kind but others as well... currently have one that has been beaten to within an inch of its life and no tail at all but its recovering.... best kept in a large group of at least a dozen or more (some suggest at least 20) to distribute the violence evenly....

Having said that ... a tank like you described (use the 4 footer) stocked with yellow labs and demasoni / maingano would look fantastic.... don't mix rift lake cichlids with other fish unless its something like a featherfin catfish or similar - these catfish are big enough to look after themselves from any abuse by the mbuna....

if overstocking just make sure you over filter .... and don't worry about the lax water changes.... my african tank (15+ demasoni and 14 acei in a 250 litre tank) doesn't get weekly water changes and the fish are fine.... fighting/breeding/fighting/eating/fighting/etc....

The 3ft tank would be a great home for a colony of brichardii.... if you start out with a few of them and wait for a pair to form - don't be surprised if the dominant male kills off the other fish when he chooses a mate... usually they won't kill off their own babies and allow them to grow up and help with raising future generations.... or even consider a colony of shellies - they are fun to watch and easy to keep as long as you give them plenty of shells to play with....