louu Posted October 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Yes I had been vaguely described demasoni, hmm doesn't sound too great though. I like the look of maingano had a quick look around and they seem a better fit than anything else. I like the sound of shell dwellers! seem like fun little guys... my main problem that's getting in the way of cichlids is rocks I would prefer fake because they are lighter but don't know where to get them. I saw a person advertising fake rocks on here so I will have to look into that.Yes I had been vaguely described demasoni, hmm doesn't sound too great though. I like the look of maingano had a quick look around and they seem a better fit than anything else. I like the sound of shell dwellers! seem like fun little guys... my main problem that's getting in the way of cichlids is rocks I would prefer fake because they are lighter but don't know where to get them. I saw a person advertising fake rocks on here so I will have to look into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbites Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Demasoni are nice looking fish - they're just aggressive for their size... mainagnos are aggressive too but they do look nice with the yellows.... re rocks... why the fakes? In my african tank most of the rocks are that lava rock - very light, easy to stack and I suspect a lot of iron in them.... some have holes drilled in them for fish hiding purposes and don't look too bad - a couple have air lines attached to them and are used as extra aeration (just like huge air stones)..... that is all buffered by a bed of calcium quartz gravel and the pH stays around 7.2 Also have a few rocks with java fern and anubias planted on them for greenery - the cichlids leave them well alone (apparently too bitter to bite)... The fish regularly spawn and I have very few deaths (probably 3 in the last year) due to aggression.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted October 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 I figured fake would be easier and cheaper as I have never seen aquarium rocks around and am unsure of where to find real ones although I could get my dad onto it being a big science man he would probably find it pretty cool... Any tips on how to find rocks? Hmm my search came up that as long as you don't have similar looking fish maingano should be fine, is that right from your experience? Also will I need to stock my tank all at once or could I have the yellows for a while and then get something else to go with? Thank you a lot your awfully helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbites Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 (edited) I'll take a pic of the rocks I mean when I get home.... then you can set your dad onto them.... they are quite light so wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to get a few shipped if you wanted to try them out.... Starting off with all yellows is fine.... then when you put the mainganos in put them in in a group rather than one at a time to again avoid single newcomers being picked on.... the yellows are pretty calm for an mbuna though.... Yellow labs will breed with almost anything that looks same body shape and has fins.... so mainganos (a different genus) and shape and colour will work well.... try not to have 2 species of the same genus when mixing mbuna otherwise you will almost definitely end up with mutts .....in saying that... I havce Ps acei and Ps demasoni in the same tank.... totally different colour pattern and body shape so it works out quite ok .... Edited October 20, 2010 by fishbites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted October 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 ok couple of questions have popped up. 1) Why do you need the water buffered with calcium quartz? What do lava rocks do to the water? 2) Do you have any tips on finding these rocks.. well any rocks for that matter. I have no idea where to look I have searched the net a little and the best I can find are those sample rocks you see in science classrooms 3) I have heard of using (this was in america) egg crates (I think they must be plastic ones) to put under the rocks to distribute the weight. Is this needed? I can't think of anything else I would use? I did get my dad onto it and he said igneous rock would be what I want like you said. He also mentioned those huge rocks they use on railways they wouldn't be the easiest things to stack (could I try gluing them with silicone glue? not saying it will be attractive but just an idea) they should be easy to find (though I don't endorse nicking them) but the weight is whats worrying me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberjade Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Have a look at landscape supplies - they can be treasure troves! It's amazing what types of rock they can stock or even get in. And sometimes you can even get pieces of rock - say from a broken slab of slate or something like that - for next to nothing. One hint - never buy stuff already bagged. It's much cheaper when you take your own bag! (I used to do landscaping) Buffering your water is always a good idea, IMO, whether it's soft or hard. I actually buffer mine with a little crushed coral, even though I have soft water. Buffering stops big PH swings. The coral also adds minerals that fish need. So you could always use crushed coral in your filter. Do a search for texas holey rocks - they are designed for hard water fish like rift lake cichlids, and from what I can gather, they aren't too heavy. To be honest, I wouldn't be overly concerned with the weight as long as you don't go overboard and try to fill the entire tank with rock! LOL And if you have the right stand, and the right foam beneath the tank, you should be alright. With all this planning and research, it's going to be one heck of a tank! Can't wait to see it all set up! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbites Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 (edited) Fish kept getting in front of the rocks so hard to see them but hope you get the idea.... will try to get pics of some loose rocks I have tomorrow afternoon in the daylight for you.... Sorry didn't realise the water marks on the glass was that bad...looks clear from where I'm sitting but the camera doesn't lie (damnit!) Edited October 20, 2010 by fishbites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbites Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 1) Why do you need the water buffered with calcium quartz? What do lava rocks do to the water? Rift Lake cichlids like a higher pH level... with waste products, driftwood, and plants this can lower the pH so the calcium quartz buffers the water to around 7.2 - 8.0 pH. The lava rocks don't do anything apart from perhaps add a bit of iron which is ok for the plants growth - they also have thousands of holes (very porous) so can harbour good bacteria just like the gravel can which helps with the water quality. 2) Do you have any tips on finding these rocks.. well any rocks for that matter. I have no idea where to look I have searched the net a little and the best I can find are those sample rocks you see in science classrooms Often these types of rock are found in outcrops - the guy I got these from has a large outcrop on his property and supplies LFS's in the area. They are from volcanic activity - foaming lava that has solidified. They are very light because of their porosity but a lot heavier than pumice. In a tank they would not hurt the glass if they toppled at all but I have found them to stack easily and are quite stable. No fish damage despite their rough surfaces. 3) I have heard of using (this was in america) egg crates (I think they must be plastic ones) to put under the rocks to distribute the weight. Is this needed? I can't think of anything else I would use? Eggcrate is the plastic lattice that is often used over bays of fluorescent lighting - lighting wholesalers sell it but watch out as some are pretty expensive compared to others... commercial electricians might be able to point you in the right direction. It's also handy as a tank divider for larger fish. When I had heavy rocks in my cichlid tank I put down a 5mm sheet of styrofoam that was packing for something I had bought and covered it with a layer of shade cloth - this stablised the rocks as well - African cichlids are the fish version of a bulldozer and will excavate around and under rocks and if they don't have a stable base they can topple easily.... I did get my dad onto it and he said igneous rock would be what I want like you said. He also mentioned those huge rocks they use on railways they wouldn't be the easiest things to stack (could I try gluing them with silicone glue? not saying it will be attractive but just an idea) they should be easy to find (though I don't endorse nicking them) but the weight is whats worrying me... Rocks glue ok with silicone... there is a type of glue they use to glue live rock with in marine aquariums but I've never found it necessary as long as you're careful stacking the rocks in the first place and making sure there's no way the cichlids can dig under them.... I have no probs with weight of rocks in my display tank as I have a half inch sheet of marine ply under it (had about 30kg of rocks in there once without probs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 With all this planning and research, it's going to be one heck of a tank! Can't wait to see it all set up! Haha yeah I know I have been planning a tank for soo long! Will have to look at a landscape supplier! @Fishbites - No wonder I was so confused about egg crates!!! Thank you so much for the pics! They are actually pretty good to look at! Which is always a plus (the rocks I mean but your fish are particularly nice too) I think I will just have to look around and actually see the rocks in person. I think I might have to give myself a geology lesson and learn a bit about the rocks before I make I decision! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbites Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Here's a couple of pics of the lava rocks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted October 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 Thank you again for the pictures it definately is helpful I think I will look into fake rocks still just incase there is something nice, you never know! My mum is doing up the garden so I think there will be a few trips to a local landscape supplier. So I guess it is just time to do some searching and see what I can come up with. If weight isn't as big a problem as I originally thought then that opens up a few options but I will be mindful of it just the same! Thanks guys :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfin538 Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 Hi, Wow long time since ive been on ausaqua where did the summer go? Anybhow if your still interested Pictus catfish can live with tiger barbs and other fish lot prettier then the bristlnose. They are a kind of silery white color with clear fins and black spots/freckles on fins and body theyre verry active swimmers and double up for clean up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted November 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 Hey Asil thanks for the link! They are pretty neat little guys! As it turns out finding rocks is proving hard to do, I am very anxious about weight and stability (don't want rocks falling down crushing fish/smashing glass) also aggressiveness has been playing on my mind. I want this to be absolutely perfect and I had an idea that sures up the stability problem but on the flipside might be a bit heavey. I saw this tank (second pic)> http://www.aquahobby.com/tanks/e_tank0801.php < it got me thinking about slate. We actually have some lying around and its easy to get a hold of I could make it a bit of a lighter load by stacking small pieces on top of each other and them a larger pice every five blocks for example. I can also lie pieces on a diagonal which would make a cave out of one piece! So I guess what I need to know is how many hidey holes do I need? I look at tanks on the net and they don't really seem to have as many places as I thought would be necessary, do I need as mind caves as fish? Do I need as much slate as the person in the icture put in their tank? I really hope my idea wouldn't be to heavey (though no one could help it) but I wanted to run it by you incase I am missing something obvious. I can't say thank you all enough this has been a saga and a half! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbites Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 if you're worried about weight of rock on the base of your tank - put a sheet of ply under the tank and put a sheet of styrofoam over that... I've had up to 30kg of rock in a 4ft tank with no probs this way... as for falling and crushing fish - the fish are faster than we give credit for - need to worry about the rock falling and breaking / scratching the glass more than anything.... you can use silicone to glue rocks together and the marine specialists have a glue that will glue live rock together.... having said that.... Stacking slate is a great idea and can look really good.... If you're still going with electric yellows, don't worry too much about how many hiding places are there - they tend to be reasonably peaceful for an mbuna.... definitely have enough hiding places for the males so they can claim their own territory and a few for the girls to hide in to get away from the male's advances.... if you use your rocks to block line of sight from one male's to the next they will establish their own territory and hope passing females will drop in for a scone and a cuppa :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted November 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 hahaha I am hoping my fish will do a bit more than drink tea together! Phew! I am glad there wasn't any major holes in my idea! When I saw the bits of slate everything just clicked and I went from wondering if I will ever find a suitable rock let alone a nice looking one to the exact style I wanted just didn't know about it! Hmm I think my mum is right in calling me a fish control freak! I was so shocked at first but I am starting to see. Thanks for the tip with the board and foam I would have thought it would need more? But I will trust you as you have done it before! I guess I should just get over it and try it, best way to see! As for inhabitants I figure I can start with electric yellows and then once I feel comfortable with it all and feel the need to I will look at something else. I really like the colours of the maingano. Oooh I am all excited! I am going to be all busy for the next while so hopefully I will get it up after christmas sometime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbites Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 ask at an electrical goods store and see if they have some thin styrofoam you can lay inside the tank.... I've put a sheet about 4mm thick down then covered it with shade cloth - I put the rocks directly on that and then filled round it with gravel... that way the fish can dig all they like and the rocks won't be undermined and fall.... African cichlids are the aquatic version of an excavator / bulldozer all rolled into one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted November 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 Yes! You mentioned that before but I didn't quite 'get it'. So is there particular styrofoam that would harm my tank? I would have thought it was all bad? I actually figured the sand would help spread out the weight but didn't think about if they dug! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbites Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 the styrofoam I have in my tank hasn't stopped my African cichlids from breeding and growing and they are all quite happy and eating voraciously..... some people actually make 3D tank backgrounds to fit inside the tanks with styrofoam as the base.... once the styrofoam has aired for quite a while it loses the styro smell and from there I think it's pretty much ok... and believe me those fish dig!!! they'll shovel out a hole in your gravel within minutes of you having nicely landscaped the tank..... that's why plants on driftwood or rocks are the only survivors in a cichlid tank... everything else gets dug up..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted November 30, 2010 Report Share Posted November 30, 2010 Yes, we have a black styrofoam backing on our 4ft tank. It keeps floating up, so we are using wood to hold it down. I keep saying the instructions say it needs to be siliconed down.. but we have never got around to it. Dad will have some waterproof silcon. It takes up a cm of the swimming space, but doesn't seem to be an issue. We don't over stock, or stock them near/to the limit, so it is OK. The smell goes away very soon, and the fish don't mind it.. in fact they like hiding behind it ( Note to DAD: needs to be stuck down ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted December 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Thanks sarah! It's good to know it is safe Well! I think I have thoroughly racked your brains and I know know everything I need to get started! I am going to hold off until the new year and save up a bit as I did some adding up and fish in my area cost A LOT the fish alone is going to be a huge cost! Well, huge for a 18 year old... I will probably umm and ahh about it, to be honest I am a little put off by how long cichlids live for and am unsure how I would go giving them away once I want to move on as I mentioned in a previous post. I am actually thinking if I could get away with yellows in a 3ft and set up a small colony that would be perfect as I still want to atleast have a go at angelfish and that won't be for a while because my tank is currently being used. Yes electric yellows first maybe even shellies! Anyway thank you so much for being so patient I have learnt sooo much! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Hope you find the perfect fish for you. The foam is very safe, just remembered we have had it in since July 2009, no trouble (except it needs to be stuck down that is ). Good luck! Make sure to post plenty of photos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Just don't rush it. Not like you are rushing it though. You will never get it perfect. Fish have personalities too. Type of fish may be ok, but someone might not tell the individual fish. It takes time. Just be patient and enjoy. I thought you were going into Tetras and barbs? Depends on what you want. Look around at different setups, find one you like, and copy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted December 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Oh don't worry I am not rushing it! Well now that I have all this information I am going to sit on it, plus there are my sister's gold fish in my 4ft which was pretty dodgey anyway (second hand) so I think she can keep that one. I think I will work on filling the tanks I already have which will certainly mean more bettas but might mean some tiger barbs or shellies. My problem is that I get caught up with all my ideas that get bigger and more grand as time passes. So I will work with what I have got and leave my big setup until I have enough money to buy one of the most important parts, the tank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Have a look at my 3ft tank in fishy showroom. Easy to look after, always busy, no agro and I find it very relaxing. Best part is if you spend $50 on fish, makes a huge difference to tank. $50 on cichlids wont get you many fish. Plus you will probably buy small cichlids which you have to wait for them to colour up. As fish get older and more territorial, it gets harder to add fish. I breed catfish which keeps it interesting for me as well. Most important thing to remember is, it's your tank, do what you want and enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted December 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 Thanks Busman, sound advice I just need to work out a few things, I am still very interested in african cichlids but for the moment will focus on smaller tanks that need filling. Thank you all for everything, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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