Luke k Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 I have a feeling that the true killer instinct could in fact be bred out of Bettas. One of my males found his way into his friends tank and they are actually living with each other OK, granted the tank is a good size 300x450x300 but they don't seem to be bothered by each other. I then threw some females in there and I now have a nice community tank tank of bettas... I am wondering, if like other pet breeds we can infact breed out the fight in these fish... well to a certain extent, we still want them to flare ;o) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 It would be extremely hard, they have evolved to be territorial, like many other animals. It is like wanting to breed out the hound instincts in hound group in dogs, which I am sure take effort in finding the even gene that is responsible for this, and work from there. Wouldn't you want a fish that still has it's natural instincts that it has evolved to become? It's is one of the things I love about fish the most, the fish with territorial instincts and spectacular courting behaviors & of course their interactions amongst themselves. Although, Ideally, it would be nice to have a tank full of splendens that live in harmony in your display tank. If people want to breed out the territorial instincts out of bettas, what is the main reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure_8 Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 I have a hunch that if you somehow managed to breed out the agressiveness in bettas ultimately you will breed them into extinction. Agressiveness is part and parcel of their spawning instinct. I have never had any success spawning a fish that does not initially flare at its prospective partner. Speaking of flaring, since thats also part and parcel of their agression display you would lose that too. I think bettas would lose a lot of their appeal to people should they not flare and display. I highly doubt I would have been initially attracted to bettas (any more than your other ordinary tropicals) if they didn't have the flares, shimmies and personality that they do anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren MacFish Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 But technically, the natural territorialness of them was exploited when fighting fish were first bred domestically for fights. If they are no longer selected for their fight and instead for their finnage, it is only natural that they will go back to a state of co-existing without murdering each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 True, but we are then left to decide on who breeds with who, and we have all seen the effects of that = Gorgeous fish, with perfect 180 degree spread, yet so weak they cannot hold their own tails up to swim properly. Then you get some of those crazy breeders out there who cut off HM's tails so they do not drag and does not interfere in breeding them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 I once knew of someone who raised 200 bettas in a pot. I wonder what ever happened to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren MacFish Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 I had 100 goldfish fry in a punchbowl once... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 for how long?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 By trying to selectively breed the aggression out of bettas, you would also be breeding out their stamina and will to breed. Also, you would need to breed for form and deportment as well as less agression and to do this would be impossible, as a betta needs to have some aggression to hold his finnage and be a betta. In my opinion, selective-breeding to produce non-aggressive bettas may well turn that line into a sickly withering twig, with bettas floating at the surface all lethargic. Although it would be much more easier and conveniant if male bettas could be kept together in one tank, how often would you see them flare? All the males I've ever kept together in the community tank became sickly and battered by the females, they just do not like it. They aren't called Fighting fish for nothing. The character and territoriality and deportment of bettas is what attrected many of us to bettas in the first place, and I personally don't want these features to change :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loongfu Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 in my opinion if you call the act of fighting the fish inhumane, breeding the fish so that they lose will to fight is even more inhumane. its like some mad scientist breeding humans until they have lost their free will or something. without the fighting instinct, how would you get the fish to flare and show their finnage? breeding fighting fish not to fight would also mean changing alot of other things. for example, how would a male get a female to submit to him and breed? theyd have to invent a whole new technique. the very foundation of fighting fish character as we know it would be destroyed completely. its more like trying to create a new species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callatya Posted December 3, 2005 Report Share Posted December 3, 2005 Anyone had a fish that fell into the *Too Dumb To Breed* category can probably safely say that a bit of fight is a good thing! I agree loongfu, its not right to breed the spark out of them. On the other hand, comparing wild B. splendens to the feisty fancies, the wilds are far more docile. I think somewhere in there we managed to breed a little bit too much fight into them (necessary for fighting fish, a bit overkill for showfish) and now we may be going too far in the other direction. If we could end up with a fish with the spunky attitude of a wild splendens, that would be ideal in my mind :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted December 3, 2005 Report Share Posted December 3, 2005 Yes, bettas with the spunky attitude of wild splendens would be nice, but because I've always thought deportment was linked with aggression, would fancy Hm bettas be able to flare their fins like they do if they were more 'wildish'? I can't say I've seen a wild betta with more than a VT-type plakat tail, so I can't really compare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joepmaster Posted December 3, 2005 Report Share Posted December 3, 2005 Hi all, I've seen this discussion already for many times on different forums since I'm into this hobby. Too my opinion this it is impossible to breed the fight out of betta splendens and at the same time maintain a healthy species. The behavior of the Betta as we know it today is the result of years of evolution. The aggressive behavior is part of their whole development and necessary to maintain a healthy strain. I believe this aggressive behavior has strong links with the their way of reproducing and actually is necessary to be successfull. Off course it is known that there are less active/aggressive strains in domestic bettas, this mainly because of inbreeding. But most of the time these strains have great difficulty in breeding and actually sometimes completely loose their ability to do so without outcrossing to another strain. I personally prefer to keep a vital and aggresive flaring betta above a lazy non-flaring fish. When you want to keep beautiful colored fish which can be kept peacefully together in one tank I think you should consider keeping another species like goldfish or guppies...........I think this can save you from a lot of dissapointment and most of all waste of time. Just my thoughts......... Many greetings from the Netherlands, Joep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren MacFish Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 Lazy bettas look sad. So do bettas that can't lift the weight of their own fins. Far better to have them aggressive and showy. for how long?! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh not for long... just the week or two it took me to figure out that I needed to go buy a tank because there were a hellava lot of them surviving, despite the massive die back that goldfish fry who live in punchbowls do naturally. It was the dog that took them out of the pond in the first place. I saved them from hot bricks and the punchbowl was the best option. They're 10 months old now only 9 survived to adulthood and all muttleys because my small pond just had one of every kind of adult. The metallic ones have just got their colours and I have a panda coloured nymph (fat bodied single tail) from a white fantail and a shibunkin! I like these muttleys... a statement that would get me thrown out of a goldfish club, no doubt. Was the pot with 200 betta bigger than a punchbowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 I once knew of someone who raised 200 bettas in a pot. I wonder what ever happened to them? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think his pot was about 200 liters (or maybe it was 80 liters?) But he had a very strong filter going and a terrestrial plant who's roots absorbed all the waste... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 LoL, was that meant to be funny Stefan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 He sure was full of it, Phil. But I only mentioned him because I don't know of anyone else who raises 200 betta fry in a cooking pot :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure_8 Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 From memory the pot in question was a very large outdoor pot with plants and a 'natural filter' system that the person was experimenting with. Definitely not a cooking pot :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 :o I for some reason remembered it as a cooking pot...well if you say so, then it was an outdoor pot :blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 it was a Pot Plant Filter. The concept was great, I think it was just the relatively small size of the container comparative to the number of fry, feeding unusual foods and and lack of heating that concerned me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gutter_glitter Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 I've had males and females in a tank together. It just requires alot of plants I find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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