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Project "Dad"


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Aim: To create a planted masterpiece for my old man by using a bare bottom tank with only driftwood and plants. Also to made an enjoyable environment for his fish...(Arowana, Discus, and 2 plecos). Also to somehow change the silver arowana with an Asian Arowana (RTG - Red Tail Golden)

Materials:

- 4X2X2 Tank established with fish and a piece of driftwood

- Plenty of plants on driftwood...

~Current Ordering List~

Anubias gracilis (Lrg Driftwood)

Anubias Afzelli (Lrg Driftwood)

Anubias Lisa (Lrg Driftwood)

Anubias Emerald Heart (Lrg Driftwood)

Anubias Paco (Med Driftwood)

Anubias Isabelle (Med Driftwood)

Anubias Coffeefolia (Med Driftwood)

Anubias Lorraine (Sml Driftwood)

Method:

Large plants at the background (to hide pipes, air stones and other equipment)

Smaller and Med plants on the front of the larger plants.

Basically to make it as natural as possible.

Date of Project: After the New Year

Cost:

About $150AUD since plants will be purchased from the wholesaler.

Baby RTG Arowana...about $2k... ;)

Comments:

Reason why I decided to do up my old-man's tank is...

1. Xmas Pressie and...

2. To make the tank more presentable... :P

Current Tank:

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Current Arowana:

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Arowana Wishing to exchange (but a smaller size) :

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Mango ;)

Edited by Mango4Jade
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Your dad keeps discus with an arowana?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah huh, a small one but. So far his got a silver arowana, but is thinking of exchanging for a High Back Red Tail Golden (HB RTG). Discus are OK with arowana. I've already seen alot of people put discus with arowanas so its ok.

The plants provide shelter for my plecos and the discus.

Edited by Mango4Jade
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Discus are OK with arowana

Sorry, but that is totally incorrect

Discus are only partially OK with the South American Arowana (Silver Aro), they are certainly not ok with the Asian variety, too much aggression.

I would never put any Discus that I have in with my Blue Crossback, as he would absolutely hammer them.

Also, the Australian variety, Saratoga (jardini, leichartdi, etc) prefer harder, more alkaline water whereas Discus prefer low GH & a more acidic pH.

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The LFS has an Arowana (Chilli Red) about 15inchs with some discus, and they are alright. They told me that if the arowana has been with discus since Juv. they will be ok together. Its the same deal with keeping Neon Tetras with Arowanas. Most of them pray for small fish, but there is lots of people in Asia which do keep huge arowanas with small fish and they are ok. Can you explain that? Lilli, yep...they wernt for sale. But, if you do go to Atlantis in Lansvale (near my house :D) they got plenty there :P I'll grab some pics if I could :D

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Its probably the same as the large predatorial fish that live with a feeder for X years. I don't know why, but it happens a lot. Often the feeder will live there for months or years and then well, vanish. Not the safest plan, but i'm not very trusting of my fish. Actually, probably I trust them to be annoyingly similar to what they are in the wild. :? Roughly how much would one expect to pay for an asian arowana of say, 3"? I think you may end up needing more smaller plants to give it a bit of dimension, as it all is going to depend upon the size and shape (primarily the shape) of the driftwood. Do you have the option of passing over any pieces and ordering again in order to get the shapes you need? Also, are you going to inject CO2 or run airstones? I quite like the small bubble look of the limewood arestones either way :D

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I have a friend in Indonesia that specialises in Aro's. Maybe I can either let you know his details so you can find out more (keeping, purchase price, etc, etc) about them, or invite him to join this board? He also breeds & shows bettas there in Indonesia. Advice please big fish? Or PM if if you want his details.

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Roughly how much would one expect to pay for an asian arowana of say, 3"?

Also, are you going to inject CO2 or run airstones? I quite like the small bubble look of the limewood arestones either way :P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It depends on the Grade and the Colour of the specimen. The one im thinking of getting is retail $3000. But, since i know them...and I bought the Silver off them...they gave my dad a good deal of exchanging the silver ($350) and adding another $2000 ontop. My dad likes the deal because noone will sell an RTG arowana for $2350.

Im going to pack the plants up quite well so the discus gets a nice home. Driftwood doesnt really play a large role...its freshly for my plecos :D But the plants provide housing for all the fish in the tank.

With co2. i havent really thought about that yet. Because I took away my DIY co2 in all my planted tanks because they grew too fast and as i needed to trim the plants twice a week! So, im still thinking about it. Any ideas on how I could improve this tank?

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I was talking to Kevkoi last night.  Depends on colour, $2,000 to $15,000 apparently.  I am not that dedicated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lilli, that is quite true, but its really $2000+...because I've seen an arowana...in Singapore (arowana arnt illegal) and it cost an american buyer $50,000US for that one 15cm specimen...so if it cost that much there...how much will it be here?

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how much will it be here?

A lot of money, especially since Arowana are an illegal import into Australia, and they are Cites listed (hence why all the top dollar bred Arowana are microchipped).

There are a few RTG's around Sydney at the moment, you just need to know where to look, or know the right people.

(side note, with Chinese New Year approaching, you will probably see a lot more advertised around the place as it is meant to bring you good fortune and prosperity to have a 'Dragon Fish')

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Arowana are an illegal import into Australia, and they are Cites listed

That's what I thought.

Aren't you afraid that the discus will be traumatised, having to constantly hide from a huge predatory "top level" swimmer? I realise they will have plants to swim in, but is that how you want them, hiding constantly in the plants?

Also, just a thought - back when I kept a saratoga, the research I did suggested that driftwood should be avoided to prevent the saratoga damaging itself. It sounds like you are going to have a lot of driftwood in the tank.

I also don't think 4x2x2 will be big enough for an arowana in the long term. I kept mine in a 4x2x3', and it was too small by the time he was a large juvenile.

I'm not saying this to be critical, just because you have asked for feedback, and I've had a while to think it over now.

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Aren't you afraid that the discus will be traumatised, having to constantly hide from a huge predatory "top level" swimmer?  I realise they will have plants to swim in, but is that how you want them, hiding constantly in the plants?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, cause i know they will survive. People in SG and malaysia has em with ST, brichirs (spelling) and arowana. It should be ok.

Take a look at this!

Posted Image

[from zhuangsw, arofanatics.com]

Edited by Mango4Jade
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Aros are much like bettas in that although they have a generally predatorial behaviour but personality of individual fish will differ from one to another. I have no doubt that there are successful setups of discus and aros, but as a general rule, its probably not wise for it to be recommended as so much would depend on the personality of the aro. I reckon its all a matter of acceptable risk and perceived value. I'd be too nervous that mr aro would one day turn around and off my discus (which are also not a dime a dozen, although markedly cheaper than dragonfish). Best you can do if you are going to try it is provide the discus with tons of cover and somewhere to retreat to should the aro get narky. I dunno about you, but i'd do anything to avoid a tank of stress stripes, they is u-g-l-y! gotta keep those calm colours *drool* If you can arange the tank so the discus can hide under something or behind something, that might be a go. It would probably even add some good structure to the 'scape if you had a bell-shaped tristed root piece over one side. Moss it up on one side where the light would be coming from (pick a side, doesn't matter really) and I dunno, I think you'll need something to soften the look of wood on glass, but I have no idea what you'd use while still maintaining ease of cleaning and that crisp look. something like pygmy chain of swords, but well, not. a brighter green would also make that background look more suited. I adore discus on blue backgrounds, but to me that one looks a little light when you put dark wood and plants, so having a brighter plant as well as the dark wood, I dunno, I think it would look more pleasing overall.

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But again, what is the point of having discus if they hide constantly and you never see them? Sure, people have done this and have done it successfully. But for how long? It's easy to whack a bunch of fish in a tank and take a photo and say "look, it works" but how does everthing look 1 month, 6 months, 12 months later? It's like the "You can keep bettas in cups" argument. Sure you can. But for how long?

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Something also to consider, Biotopes all the high end Arowana are of Asian heritage, and prefer more neutral water parameters, Birchirs (I have albinos and ornates) they are from the lakes and rivirene areas of Africa, therefore with a preference for harder more alkaline waters. Then we have Discus (and the poor aro cousin, the silver) who prefer no general hardness at all, low carbonate hardness, and acidic water (pH 6.2 > 6.8). Yes, in a general community it is possible to mix differnt types of fish, i.e. Tetras, Livebearers, etc, but for such high end fish I would strongly go against it. I have seen Discus with Aro's before, and I have also seen an adult Super Red eliminate 2 juvenile Discus in a matter of minutes. Oh, I hope you got permission to use that pic from arofanatics - bro

Edited by enisae
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