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shadoh

Shadoh's Fish 2012

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Just realized I never started a 2012 thread along the lines of my "Class of 2011" thread. It is easier to keep all my photos together :D

Thought I'k kick things off with my orange boy. Looks like the marble gene has kicked in again. His colour is deepening and his dragon scales are increasing in number as well as getting thicker...

JN3.jpg

JN2.jpg

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Very nice mate. I agree with MT wouldn't mind an orange myself

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He's GORGEOUS!

Is that the boy for your giant girlie?

Just thought I'll point out the forum allows you to post 5 photos at a time, and you only posted two. :P

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woooOOooo he's really interesting - I nearly lost my mind when I saw the first shot... but he's Asymmetrical yeah? still very lovely shapes!

And the orange is pretty impressive!, Do love a good dragon scale over pale body.

He's a keeper!

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Wow. Hard to believe it's the same fish. Is that a true refection of his color???

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@sarah, no not this boy. Don't want to introduce her blue irid. Must find a nice dragon girly for him

@ness, yes he is asymmetrical. He was a real ugly duckling. My least favorite of the spawn that has grown to be one of my favorites...

@busman, it's a pretty close representation of his colour. You do realize this is the son, not the father, right?

Thanks Jennie :)

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Okay so we've got this Orangey reddish orange lovely pants man.

Can someone explain how the genetics of Red and Non Red, along with Red LOSS (which is CRAAAAAAZY) works with a fish this colour?

I'm assuming the betty splendens site is down (which is my go-to resource for colour genetics) what's the go - yo?

Is orange basically a yellow underneath a sort of transparent sort of red?

love it. want it.

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Betty Splendens is having a lot of probs at the moment for some reason. A few years back she has a podcast show (unfortunately, these shows are no longer online) One had Gene Lucas on as a guest. I remember him saying there were distinctly 2 types of non-red : NR1, which covers the yellow and NR2, which is the oranges. Both are a mutation of the red gene. In my experience (and have nothing here to back this up), they are cambodian fish with a NR version of extended red over the top, therefore covering the fleshy coloured body. Red loss is something that shows up in marble spawns which is where this guy is from.) It causes any red wash to marble out (and the reason many breeders introduce marbled fish into a solid blue spawn.) I don't think red loss is what's here though, as most of this spawn have NR1 or NR2 wash (yellow and orange version of red wash - looks prettier, but works the same as red wash...)

Although I stop short at calling this an orange Dalmatian, as with only a streak or two of the darker orange, he is a poor example, I think the same genetics are at play.

Not a lot is known about Dalmatians - it is a trait a thai breeder noticed popping up in a lot of VTs at the local market and developed. It is assumed it is linked with the marble gene, but differs in some ways:

1. It is a dominant trait. Whereas in marble spawns you will get some solid colours (this spawn in particularly only had a small handful of marbles) with the Dalmatian trait, all offspring will have some degree of spotting

2. It only shows on NR fish. It is assumed that if bred to red, the red covers and hides the spotting, an F1 spawn will throw some NR with spots. It doesn't affect irids. Irids are also said to hide the spotting underneath.

3. It is more stable. Whereas normal marbled fish have patterns that are almost constantly changing, Dalmations are pretty much stable.

OK, my head hurts now from squeezing all that info from it. Might go lie down... :)

Thinking on what I just said, the more vibrant yellow and oranges would be the non cambodian NR's. Keeping in mind that NR is a mutation of the red layer and thus behaves the same way... k ta

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hmm you're right, i thought he had more splotches, but that must have been my mind playing tricks. haha

if anyone wants to see the Betty Splendens, click on 'cached' on the Betty Splendens orange dalmatian google listing and it should pop up.

are you thinking of pursuing this colour? it'd be very interesting to see if he did have the genes for it as i don't think i've come across an OD with dragon scaling - most just have a very pale/cello body.

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He is part of my breeding plans. I'd like to work on the dragon scaling to get full coverage. Perhaps a nice orange dragon girly :D

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Wild nut has the most magnificent orange dalmatian VT, he's one of the few fish I've seen that I would cross over into to VT country to develop.

She mentioned that his spots developed and spotted much more over time - this dude might too?

Thanks Jarrod - that helps.

(MT) I couldn't make my cache worrrrkkkkkk - we empty it a bit at work.

x

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It's googles cache Ness, not yours. Try this link - just worked for me :D

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:83DhZTVgWT0J:bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp%3Farticleid%3D1757+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

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A couple of Thai breeders have recommended that I cross to a red dragon. Apparently line breeding yellows and oranges fades the colour out over time. A trick some breeders over there use is to cross to a red. Unless said red carries NR, all offspring will be red. A sibling spawn will then produce more vibrant oranges and/or yellows. As the Dalmatian trait is dominant, I shouldn't lose the spotting once I get NR back. I have an platinum yellow I was going to cross him with, but the same breeders told me that I'll only get pale coloured solids and cellophane marbles.

Just reading the cached Betty Splendens article about the Dalmatians. The part about the Yellow Spotted Melanos is interesting. I wonder if Orange Spotted Melanos might be possible considering it is still a NR colour. An experiment might be in order...

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OK, my second project for 2012 (1st being my elusive CTPK spawn) will be to start work on prodicing a bright orange dalmatian dragon HMPK :D

I mean BRIGHT - like this girl...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/545836_244107269021025_100002652604462_473665_1618401432_n.jpg

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Am I the only person on this planet who actually likes cellophanes/cellophane marbles? *lol* Anyone has any cellophane females for sale I'm all over them.

That female you linked to is a gorgeous colour Jarrod. I have a pink dalmation male here and he has the most spotting I think I've seen on a dalmation. It's a stunning colour, but you rarely see it on anything but VTs.

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I don't mind them so much, but when stuck with an entire spawn of them and nobody wants them, it can be VERY frustrating not being able to move them on and start on the next spawn...

I'm only just discovering the beauty of the dalmatian betta. Yes, for some reason you don't see them on many of the fancy tail types, but imagine what it would look like :D Hmmm... spotty CTPKs anyone???

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That's why I'm so afraid to start breeding. I can just imagine myself being stuck with a whole lot of sulky, fussy males :lol:

Dalmation CTPKs would look nice. I've always wondered whether dalmation was a hard trait to breed for as even though it seems popular (on another forum I'm on everyone is always saying how they want to own a dal) you really don't see it on anything but VTs. I have only seen a few HMs on AB with that colouring.

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