water conditions

[fishish]

Hi everyone, I'm wondering what the water conditions for bettas should be? I was hoping to get some fish today but the LFS tested my water (set it up two days ago and have been using seachem stability) and the ammonia is too high apparently. Its 0.25 that seems like a small digit to me I'm guessing it should be 0? can anyone enlighten me further? Eg How high can ammonia get and at what point is it considered really bad?

It must be coming from the stability as no fish in there.

Nitrite and Nitrate were 0, this is good right? again, how high can it get and at what point is it considered to be a crisis situation? (assuming fish in there)

Ph is 7.2,i think this is ok? perhaps a tinsy insy bit high?

Hes also written "GH -drops" errr I thought GH had something to do with water hardness???

Lastly, he told me to keep it running for 7 days and keep adding stability every day then come back in a week with another water sample. When I left I thought I should have asked if I should be doing daily water changes like when cycling a tank with fish. What does everyone think??? no fish but yeah, ammonia ain't 0 so....?? and of course water is evaporating.

Thanks :)

Edited September 24, 2010 by fishish

[Bettarazzi]

I didn't think that Stability was intended for use without fish. The purpose of Stability is to help the bacteria along and to allow you to add fish straight away. If you were trying to do a fishless cycle, you should have added ammonia. Did you tell the LFS guy that there were no fish in there? Personally, I would just add the fish. I never test the water when I'm preparing a tank for bettas.

[Yanagi]

Agree with Bettarazzi, I don't think it's supposed to be used without fish.

Bettas are highly adaptable, your pH is of very little importance. Unless of course it's some outrageous level which yours is not.

You're going to be getting ammonia no matter what once you add fish. No need to do water changes if there's nothing alive in the tank, before you add fish do a 30% change, and then smaller changes, about 25% per week. Once the tank is cycled you want 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and 10-15 nitrate.

Any ammonia is bad, although unavoidable without doing a fishless cycle.

I think that's about everything, my brain is fried tonight.

[fishish]

Thanks

Yeah i did tell him it doesnt have fish yet. I think stability has bacteria in it? im stumped as to where the ammonia came from, the guy led me to believe it is in the stability and i guess it must be but for what purpose if its used with intention of adding fish immediately?

I don't have a full master test kit yet. can't afford the $80 right at the moment. i have pH test kit only but now sounds like that was perhaps not necessary Though in saying that,i thought i needed to watch it to make sure it doesn't fluctuate drastically?

If i go ahead and get fish, should i invest in an ammonia test kit and perhaps one more? if so what? anything thats likely to be drastically changing in the first couple of weeks or so other than ammonia? i think nitrite also?

How high exactly is 0.25 ammonia?

[Yanagi]

Can't comment on the stability 'cause I have a massive headache and it hurts to think too hard lol

Tap water pH won't fluctuate unless you're adding stuff to it. If you leave it sit for a couple of days you might find it drops a bit, but that's about it.

Ammonia test kit is invaluable. Everyone should have one. If you want to be sure your tank is cycled (and don't want to keep going to the LFS) you may as well just go ahead and get the freshwater master kit, because you will need ammonia, nitrite and nitrate to be 100% sure.

Ammonia and nitrite will be changing.

If you have some fast growing stem plants in there, they'll suck up the ammonia/nirite which can make maintaining the levels easier and safer for fish, and it should prevent any ammonia spikes as well. (plants such as wisteria, most of your hygros, like green and variegated)

0.25 ammonia is pretty low, but any and all ammonia is bad and prolonged exposure to such levels brings on things like weaken immune system, fin rot, etc.

sorry if I forgot anything, this headache is getting real bad real fast. :/

[fishish]

Thanks Yan sounds like the last thing you should be doing is chemistry, however basic

I think there are more than one master kit brands? can someone recommend one?

Regarding water changes, I'd figured if i was doing say 30 or 50% i would just aproximate how much that is but 30% and 25% is a bit specific so should i be somehow working out a precise quantity?

Also how do i heat the water that I'm putting in once fish are in there? I've been aging water with conditioner in it in a bucket purchased for my tank.

Edited September 24, 2010 by fishish

[delyall]

My master test kit was around $40 if I remember correctly.. its the cheapest Ive seen it, but I agree its definitely worth getting Mines the API brand

Lol, talking about Coburg? I was in there the other day.. I was shocked to see all those little jars Theres so many! :blink:

[tracey6565]

finish approximating 25 or 30% is fine, Betta's are really quite hardy when it comes to their water, remember in the dry season they will flop from one small water hole to another so they're pretty tolerant of conditions varying a bit. I often do a 95% water change weekly and mine have NEVER developed any disease or stress as far as i've been able to tell. Others will no doubt disagree as we all have different experiences.

Heating the water once the fish are in there: a submersible heater is the go for that, in Melbourne you REALLY need to heat your tanks over winter. Follow directions when you first submerge it or you could electrocute yourself or your fish. Know your tanks water capacity before you buy the heater tho as it should be the correct size. (in watts not physical size)

[fishish]

@delyall yeah Coburg. I worry about those fish, why did they buy veil tails in the hundreds? lol What will happen if they don't sell....

Where did you get your master test kit?

they have a new shipment in, they say its there but in quarantine. i was told last week it was on its way and avalable today. I don't know what to think! They keep telling me different stuff Maybe they're trying to unload their mass numbers of veil tails and shortfins first? I tried to time my tank being ready with the shipment, now dunno when the fish will be out. Ugh

@Tracey yeah got a heater, i was meaning, well if im doing a 30% or more water change with cold water, isn't that going to shock them? Perhaps i add it slowly?

Edited September 24, 2010 by fishish

[jo oakley]

The shipment has been unpacked today/or is available now,

I was chatting with a lady to night that unpacked them.

You don't use cold water, you should at least bring it up to room temperature.

Edited September 24, 2010 by jo oakley

[zhong89]

The cheapest I found for the master testing kit is at st albans in melbourne for $42. If you don't want to go there they do have a store online on ebay and can send it to you for $10 extra. The thing is even with the postage it's the cheapest I found. The ones at upmarket and coburg is $70 each, at st kilda is $84, the one in blackburn is $65. So overall that's the cheapest. I think they do telephone order as well, if before 5 they send it out on that day.

Disclaimer: I do no work for st albans aquarium or have any shares etc with them...lol. I simply dealt with them in the past and found they have quite good priced stuff (heaters, tanks etc).

[fishish]

Thanks Joan. Got 3 fish this morning but couldn't afford to get the master kit as well ($70 ) but vital to test ammonia immediately so got one of those, and already have pH so may end up buying them all one by one lol

St Albans is a bit far for me. Do they have a lot of bettas there usually? and a nice selection? May be worth taking a look sometime...

[fishish]

I did a 30% water change, left it a bit to warm up, put the bags in fully closed for a bit to adjust to different temperature. Tested ammonia and pH, both still the same. pH 7.2 ish, ammonia 0.25

Later added some of my tank water and re-tied them as ive read you shouldn't put the water in the tank in case its contaminated. The boys had been just sitting there in their bags looking bored, when i added the water they looked like they freaked out a bit, their lips opening and closing and rushing round.

5 mins later they're still doing that, though it now potentially has something to do with me walking up the tank, they get excited? At least someone is happy to see me! lol

Is it normal? I figure if it was ammonia in my tank that irritated them they would be going up to the surface in the bags to get air? The water in the bags (they were in jars) has old bits of food and stuff floating round so I'd think ammonia would be in there surely?

Also ammonia kit doesn't say how to dispose of the test after. Its corrosive so surely can't just be tipped down the sink???

*edit* I'm being overly paranoid, they're fine still not sure why ammonia is the same after water change?

Edited September 25, 2010 by fishish