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Which Fish To Use?


Berryfriendly
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Can you cross breed betta's? For example a Crown Tail with a Veil Tail? Or a Halfmoon with a Veil Tail? What are the results? Are the offspring healthy or prone to problems? I ask because I can't find a crowntail female anywhere ... Also I have read that most people breed siblings for stronger colours and genetics but some breed for new strains. Which is more favourable?

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When it comes down to breeding it all depends on what your aims are. Are you breeding for colour or tail type? If you can tell us what sort of outcome you are looking for we can help point you in the right direction. CT females are fairly easy to get hold of, so if thats the way you are wanting to go perhaps a WTB in the classifieds? HTH

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Hi Berryfriendly, Yes you can cross breed Bettas. In fact you can even cross Bettas of different species. The reason people breed siblings together is to strengthen or "set" various traits in their fish. Such fish are not necessarily genetically "stronger" (the opposite is more likely, though not inevitable). If you cross veiltail with halfmoon, you are likely to get all veiltail in the first generation because veiltail is the dominant trait. However, if the veiltail that you used has Halfmoon in the background, you can get fry that are not veiltail in the first generation. You could get delta type tails. The halfmoon tail is the product of a number of different genes in the one fish, in addition to environmental factors that promote the expression of these genes optimally. Crowntails are usually very easy to obtain. Because the Crowntail gene is an incomplete dominant, if you cross a Crowntail with a non-Crowntail type, you will get fry which are intermediate. That is they will show some "combtail" characteristics, but the reduction in webbing between the fin rays will be minimal. If you cross the F1 offspring back to the Crowntail parent (or another Crowntail) approximately 50% of the fry should be Crowntail and 50% will resemble the F1 parent. What is better: Strain versus Colour as an aim for a breeding program is entirely up to you. It also depends on what you define as a strain. "Strain" can refer to a relatively true breeding closely related group of fish of a particular colour and/or type. Some breeders put a lot of onus on their particular "strains" and you only have to look on Aquabid to see the profusion of different "brand names" available out there. A look at some of the American websites will demonstrate the extent to which some breeders will attempt to "copywrite" their particular strain names. Another consideration is whether you are breeding your fish to win at show, if so, your breeding aims may be different again. Hope this helps Nick

Edited by NICK1960
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Hi Berryfriendly,

Yes you can cross breed Bettas. In fact you can even cross Bettas of different species.  The reason people breed siblings together is to strengthen or "set" various traits in their fish.  Such fish are not necessarily genetically "stronger" (the opposite is more likely, though not inevitable).

If you cross veiltail with halfmoon, you are likely to get all veiltail in the first generation because veiltail is the dominant trait. However, if the veiltail that you used has Halfmoon in the background, you can get fry that are not veiltail in the first generation. You could get delta type tails.  The halfmoon tail is the product of a number of different genes in the one fish, in addition to environmental factors that promote the expression of these genes optimally.

Crowntails are usually very easy to obtain. Because the Crowntail gene is an incomplete dominant, if you cross a Crowntail with a non-Crowntail type, you will get fry which are intermediate.  That is they will show some "combtail" characteristics, but the reduction in webbing between the fin rays will be minimal.  If you cross the F1 offspring back to the Crowntail parent (or another Crowntail) approximately 50% of the fry should be Crowntail and 50% will resemble the F1 parent.

What is better: Strain versus Colour as an aim for a breeding program is entirely up to you.  It also depends on what you define as a strain.  "Strain" can refer to a relatively true breeding closely related group of fish of a particular colour and/or type.  Some breeders put a lot of onus on their particular "strains" and you only have to look on Aquabid to see the profusion of different "brand names" available out there. A look at some of the American websites will demonstrate the extent to which some breeders will attempt to "copywrite" their particular strain names.

Another consideration is whether you are breeding your fish to win at show, if so, your breeding aims may be different again.

Hope this helps

Nick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for the info mouse and Nick.

I am just getting into bettas and am currently raising my first spawn. The mother is a VT and the father is a CT. If I can successfully raise this lot (fingers crossed) I would love to try and spawn again. The more information I have - the better chance I have of raising beautiful bettas!!!

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I had the same problem befor xmas i couldn:t find a ct female to match the CT male . I put a cambodium female VT in with him, he was blue and red . A noticible outcome was the 50: 50 mix of fry being white and dark. just noticing fins are all vt .. they will all be carriers of ct but not show it in significant form. My juveniles are jarred and appear healthyand showing some colour .(colour may still change ) the intention next is to pick some of the nicer colours. Some of the juveniles have cambo white body with light blue wash over. These are the pretiest . I believe that if I mated daughters back to dad 25% of that spawn will return full ct . This has been an interesting spawn to conduct.

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As Nick mentioned, IME VT x HM gives you delta tails. I did this cross once to see if I could introduce new colous into VTs. Personally I would not cross tail types (except HMPK into HM to strengthen HM rays). People have worked hard over generations of fish and years of time to isolate and develop the traits/characteristics the tail types have. These crosses are fine if you're experimenting, or new to bettas and are doing it just to gain experience or have limited access to females, etc. I'm not judging anyone's choices. It's just that unless your plan is to sell them to a LFS for $2 a fish or something, breeding a specific tail type will yield more readily saleable fry, and people why buy your fry won't get any genetic surpises or throwbacks from their spawns. And it's as much money and effort to raise a $2 spawn as a $20 spawn. :lookaround:

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest BumbleBeejay

Mmm... genetics, genetics... I have a Crowntail male which i'm planning to breed to my delta tail female to straighten out his fin rays which aren't a straight as I've seen in show bettas. This will be my first spawn if all goes successfully. =) Emielio is a Multi colour (blue, red, turqoise) and the female is a very pale steel grey. Silvery with a blueness about her... hrmm.. If nothing else, it will be good practice before I get a good breeding pair. I love all my bettas, half breeds and all! =p

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Just a thought - often un-straight rays in CTs is environmental, not genetic. Rays often curl in situations of high nitrate and/or inadequate UV. So the cross you propose may not be the answer. Good luck though!

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As an update that spawn of ct x vt that i did before xmas on inspection the big juvies that grew fast and are jarred are VT .the slower ones in the growout tank are looking more like the comb tails. If i mate these comb tail siblings together will a % of there offspring be full CT in the next generation?. Quiet the "long way round" to get back to CT hey !!!!

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I believe that combtail x combtail will yield some CT. Percentage wise, I'm not sure. I'd take a punt at 25% (assuming each parent's tail gene is "Full webbing + reduced webbing"). But I'm not sure you'd get the full, "half sun" kind of tail shape sought in a CT by crossing combtails. So the % of actual CTs (rather than VTs with very reduced webbing) may be even smaller. Can you cross one of the fry back to the CT parent instead?

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