charntelle Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Just discovered the darndest thing when I was feeding the gang! I have a pair of MG CT's from Koblarp in Thailand, which until 5 minutes ago I had put into the "too stupid to spawn" category. The female was barred up & full of eggs, but the male wasn't really interested, so I just released her in with him, them left them to it. They are another crazy pair (trying to jump out whenever disturbed), so were close to going into the cupboard. Luckily, it's cooled down up here to a pretty constant 38 degrees during the day, 26 at night, so it wasn't too hot to just leave them out with a lid on the tank. Due to their craziness, they were just getting fed once at night, being disturbed as little as possible. Tonight, when I was about to feed them, I noticed the female performing what looked like egg gathering movements. You know - dipping to bottom of tank, then doing "something" at the surface. So, I lifted the lid to get a better look. SURPRISE!!! She is tending a bubblenest 20 times the size of the male on "her" side of the tank. Seriously, it's about 6 bubbles wide by 3-4 bubbles high, the full length the long side of the tank. The male is studiously under his cup, tending his whole 10 bubbles which are scattered everywhere anyway! On observation, she has fry falling out of her nest, which she delicately scoops up & spits back into her nest. The male is just watching his (and I can't see any fry anyway). She came away to have a feed, then went straight back to round the kids back up again. I've heard of this happening, but have never actually seen it. She is awesome! Yay betta mummy! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Congrats so much! I wish I had or have or will have a female like that Just be very carefull though, because she may raise the fry and then eat them. Just don't disturb them at all and on the first sign that she is getting restless/jumpy, remove the pair. Use your judgement. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 That is remarkable Charntelle. I have had females spawn and take eggs and build their own nest and tend them briefly, but never to the stage of raising fry. I hope she stays focussed! I wonder if its a "nurture" thing and if her daughters would do likewise? Just be very carefull though, because she may raise the fry and then eat them. As opposed to what the males do? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Well in my second spawn my little 9 week old girl made herself a nest after spawning, took some eggs, tended them, then ate them the next day. I say be more carefull because females don't normally nurse the young, so it's more likely that she will eat them eventually. But I hope yours doesn't, Charntelle. Hey, have you heard of the pathanogenic female betta? She will act like a male in all aspects, but she will lay unfertlized eggs, tend them, and they hatch! But all fry are female. I can't remember where I read about this though, possibly the Champion Bettas, American forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure_8 Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 you mean parthenogenic? Isn't that normally an insect thing? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bettabegood Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Hey Charntelle, I've read a few old articles from the IBC about females tending to fry. Although it's rare, in each case the female did an excellent job. Maybe it's a "girlie thang", but how cool to actually own such a female and be able to observe her mothering her young! You go girl!!!!! Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 you mean parthenogenic? Isn't that normally an insect thing? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, Parthenogenic. I haven't spelled that word in almost a year Most people would think it's an insect thing -Aphids do it, but so do Brine shrimp and Daphnia, and a whole lot of other small organisms. I'll try to find where they wrote about parthenogenic female bettas :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charntelle Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I'm pleased to report that mum has been a good girl. No fry eating observed. Dad is still floating under his cup, watching the babies as they fall, giving them a wave as they go past, then leaving them there on the bottom. I have just pulled them both out of the tank, as there seems to be a good portion of zippies zipping around the tank. I guess I have potentially lost a lot, but no more than I would have if the female had been pulled as soon as eggs were seen in the nest (as the male is so disinterested). This girl is getting treated like a queen from now on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canfeleq Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Regarding parthenogenic females, it's not just an insect thing, there is a species of freshwater fish that have normal and parthenogenic females (in Argentina I think) I remember seeing a documentary about it. This particular species is found in several locations along the river but one pocket has been completely isolated for years and has developed on it's own. One of the reasons that I recall this is that they are being studied to discover if their resistance to disease has been lowered by this natural 'cloning' method. If it's possible with these fish, why not Bettas? I know that some are saying that Bettas are becoming so inbred that they are losing the drive or ability to breed normally. We could be observing evolution in progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charntelle Posted January 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Woo hoo! Evolution in progress (possibly) at my place! Like I said, she's gonna be treated like a queen from now on. Will be interesting to see if she continues this pattern when bred again, and whether or not her female offspring do it too. Will try to keep everyone updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Well technically, evolution is in progress in every breeder's fishroom or backyard. We are all breeding to develop our bettas to reach a particular goal, and we are changing them slightly in the process... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 I'm not sure what we are doing is evolution, in the Darwinian sense. Evolution involves survival of the fittest, not the prettiest :shifty: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VickiPS Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 True. Selective breeding is in many ways the converse of natural selection. A lot of the fish we choose to breed would quite possibly not succeed in reproducing otherwise, and many of the traits we select for don't confer a survival advantage on the offspring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 I aggree with you there, but we are still changing their genetic make-up ever so slightly as we breed them. It is still selection, even if it isn't happening naturally. Bettas today look soooo much different from their wild ancestors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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