fishish Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 (edited) Hi everyone I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried growing fresh water aquatic plants themselves? I did a tinsy bit of research and looks like the reproduce primarily by vegitative propigation (aesexual). ie as opposed to producing seeds. The later sometimes occuring but rarely and it is hard to grow them from seed apparently (side note, is it possible to buy seeds??) So you can wait and hope that they grow a little baby plant (such as runners or plantlets) and break it off then replant but I'm wondering how often plants would produce these? Alternatively you can do things like artificial propigation by cutting the plant in two at the rhizome or taking a cutting, removing lower leaves and re-planting it. Sounds a bit scary! lol I'd be weary of attempting such things at the risk of killing the whole plant I also find it odd that a cutting could be simply taken and plopped into the substrate and will then re-grow. I worked for a short time in land plant propigation in a nursery and the cuttings need to be dipped in... err... I don't even know what it was lol some kind of hormone mix I guess, it encourages root growth from the nodes. If this was not done the cutting would not grow roots. However clearly this presents problems in an aqueous environment as water would wash it off. Some of the LFS plants are in little pots in some kind of sponge stuff so perhaps that contains some sort of root nutrients? Does anyone have any experience/knowledge in this area? Edited October 5, 2010 by fishish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUNGLE Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 You just asked a question that would fill several books....haha. The hormones used for rooting terrestrial plants are only needed to produce a callous with slow rooting plants. Most aquatic plants are very easy to propagate. You need to find an lfs with great display tanks and ask for easy to grow plants until you get the hang of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neffy Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 duckweed for the easiest :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishish Posted October 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 Duckweed can be propigated? What I read said that stem plants are the best for propigation lol duckweed you mean lemnaceae? It doesn't look like it would need propigagation any more than my unruly java moss Jungle can you advise what method of propigation you would use? and on what kind of plants I could get started with initially (without needing several books worth of space)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neffy Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 I thought it grew by a little leaf that then breaks away to make its own bundle of little leaves that break away to make more ect but no i was being silly and saying its the easiest thing to grow full stop I have had good sucess with watersprite break off a branch leave it floating and itll grow roots. most of the time the breaks i make are acidental and its always growing new plantlets that are attached via a stem to the main body, i just snap that stem and move the new bunch to a different tank wont die at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJay Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 (edited) I also find it odd that a cutting could be simply taken and plopped into the substrate and will then re-grow. And thats whats so great about them! For stem plants, as soon as they start to grow to tall it's just a matter of trimming it back and replanting the cuttings (if you want to). The basics you'll need for plants is adequate lighting, a nutrient rich substrate, a carbon source and fertilisers. Some of the easier plants are less demanding for the above than others. The key is to keep a balance (or learn to love algae like Jungle does) If you already have a tank setup and don't want to do an overhaul of it, a few fert tabs and replacing your aquarium bulbs to some suitable for plants is a good start. (and there is lots of plants that don't need much more than this to grow, but of course the more you give them the better they'll grow) Be weary at your lfs and research the plants they have. Most shops sell Pisces line of plants which unfortunately includes many non aquatic plants - which will leave you feeling disappointed and thinking that you can't grow plants. http://www.plantgeek.net/ has a good section that shows some of the common plants sold that are not aquatic. Edited October 5, 2010 by MJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishish Posted October 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 (edited) Thanks everyone MJay you make it sound really easy! lol I appear to be killing my java moss so don't be putting too much faith in my green fingers now on that note, anyone know why my java moss could be dying???? I thought it was a hardy plant? The edges have lost their green When you say trim back and replant cuttings, is there not a specific location you should trim from? ie like make sure theres a decent node, remove lowest leaves? With roses in the garden theres even a specific angle you should trim with.... The light I have is T8 single globe, 18 watt. I think its insufficient? I think I need a T5, double globe or more? Why is T5 better??? they're thinner right? why does that equate to better? and how many watts should each globe be? p.s thanks for the link MJay, VERY useful! Edited October 6, 2010 by fishish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhong89 Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 how big is your tank? Java fern is hardy, I put some in my betta barracks and it survives on light that comes through the window. It doesn't grow very fast (like any low level plant), but it doesn't mean it's dead. There are some brown on my edges at the beginning, I think it's because it's trying to adjust to the water conditions in the tank. I never trim my java ferns coz it reproduces from sprouting from those not so healthy leaves. I've had many little plants growing out of damaged leaves in many occasions; my healthy leaves don't reproduce as well it's strange . I even save some of the leaves that as being torn off by fish (they loves my plants, apparently it's great fun to torn of bits every now and then) and soon after there's little roots and leaves sprout from them. Help this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishish Posted October 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 (edited) Thanks Joan I was talking about java moss, not java fern... maybe adjusting to new water still applies? hope so! My tank is 90 litres, 38cm in height which i think adds to the light issue? cos not only is 18 watts from a single globe insuffient but its pretty deep water... Can anyone recommend a good substrate? Am really not trusting lfs atm lol they just tried to sell me another liquid fertilizer My tank is already set up but would it be impossible to take the fish out for a bit and most of the gravel and put something else under it? Edited October 6, 2010 by fishish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Oh this is a great thread! I will be eagerly waiting replies as this would be very helpful for me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betta_guy Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Just get the Substrate, light, and CO2 levels right, with additional dose of the Excel products and the problem your going to have is keeping up with the growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unissuh Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 (edited) Should be able to grow java moss with that light, it's really not that light demanding. Don't think substrate is all that important with mosses, but there are essentially two types of options, clay based (e.g. Flourite, Eco-complete) and the Aquasoils (ADA, Up Aqua). Each has their own positives and negatives...they work differently. I'd probably pick Seachem Flourite; I think it's the most beginner friendly. As far as propogation goes, it's easier to buy cuttings or plantlets as opposed to seeds & will give you a mature plant faster. Most of the aquatics tend to only flower when they are grown emersed. How fast they produce runners etc depends on the plant and the conditions that it is in, some grow fast and some grow slow. Edited October 16, 2010 by unissuh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJay Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 (edited) How much light will depend on what you want to grow. I have a few tanks with one or two t8 flouros, they are 45 deep. Plenty of stuff will grow, Aponogetons Bolbitis/ferns, Cryptocorynes, Vallisneria, Anubias's, Mosses, Hygrophila, Ambulia, Bacopa, Ceratopteris. So there is certainly no shortage of plants to grow. T5's put out more light and allow you to grow more plants, Eriocaulons, A wider variety of stem plants, ground covers etc. (anything really if you pack enough over the tank) So really it will depend on what you want to grow, how much time you want to spend maintaining your tank and whether or not you upgrade to t5's, or just add another flouro etc. (And also depends on your budget). And whether you are prepared to make other upgrades to keep up with the increased level of lighting. A good reflector makes a difference too. With regards to light tubes, T8 and T5 refers to the width of the tube ie t5 - 5/8 of an inch. T5 has better lumens per watt and hence throws out more light. (I think, not a lighting expert) "How many watts a tube should be" really just depends on the length of the tank, as they go up in watts as they go up in length. How many tubes you should have on the other hand is dependant on whether you want a high light or low light tank. A good way to go is to get a fitting capable of holding a few tubes, this means you can run one tube or 4, or any number in between. For an eastablished tank it will depend how much time you want to spend rehauling the tank, substrate tabs are a great way to get nutrients down into the substrate without pulling the tank apart (and results from a diy substrate can be just as good as those commercially prepared ones). For commercial substrates it will depend what you want to grow and what fish you want to keep as to what substrate is best for you as some will alter your ph. I won't get to deep into commercial substrates though, it can be a colourful conversation to say the least As mentioned above Excel is a good carbon source, though for a liquid carbon source I prefer Dave @ Aquagreen's 'Dino Spit' which provides a liquid carbon source too. (Of course, pressurised is the bees knees but not within everyones budget.) Dave's Dino dung tabs are a great root tab too. (and very cheap) Lastly, for the majority of stem of plants I just hack into them a few inches from the substrate(using mums finest scissors is the only necessity here) nothing scientific about where or angle of the cut. Spread the cuttings out when you plant/replant them. I hope that answers a few more questions Regards Michael Edited October 20, 2010 by MJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishish Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) And whether you are prepared to make other upgrades to keep up with the increased level of lighting. Oh oh.... like? Havn't sorted CO2 yet, maybe thats whats killing my Anubias? They're still dieing rapidly even after the laterite and root tab addidtion new light should arrive mid next week but oh no! CO2 as well! Why do these plants have to be soooo demanding! am thinking will organise a DIY CO2 system in a few weeks. Have absolutely no idea where to start, was going to search on here as I think I've skimmed past a few threads, something about yeast in a bottle? lol Edited October 21, 2010 by fishish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJay Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Oh oh.... like? Havn't sorted CO2 yet, maybe thats whats killing my Anubias? They're still dieing rapidly even after the laterite and root tab addidtion new light should arrive mid next week but oh no! CO2 as well! Why do these plants have to be soooo demanding! Like co2 and fertilisers to keep up with the amount of lighting. The laterite and root tabs will provide no help to the anbubias, their rhizomes should be kept above the substrate and attached to a rock/driftwood. Perhaps this is what is causing problems for your anubias. Regards MJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishish Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) oops i meant swords lol not anubias. wee bit tired atm, please excuse mmm i see regarding growth. but if theres excess light and not enough of something else thats not going to kill them is it? On the anubias topic, how can they be attached to wood? Until their roots grow around it to keep them there that is. Edited October 21, 2010 by fishish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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