bluebetta Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 I am going to get some guppies to try and breed now that we sadly only have one fighter left. I am going to have them in my 10L tank. How many should I have and should / or could I have a few platies or swordtails too because the are pretty much the same but are they the same to breed??? Could I also have a little sucking fish to clean the tank instead of snails??? Would they grow too big though? Also how long can guppies go for without any food because i will be going away and if i get them before we go would they last the day or 2 without getting food? Also what do the fry eat when they are born? Sorry bout all the ?'s though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebetta Posted July 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 More Questions. I am getting dad to divide my 10L tank into 2. (thank god for handy dads!!!) Would that be big enough to have some in each side so that they don't inbreed?? Also will i need a filter caus i think the one i have is to damn big for the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 I would go with just one pair or one trio of guppies in a tank that small. Swordtails would need a bigger tank because they can get quite big. Do you have another tank to use to raise the fry? Maybe you can get a small air driven corner filter for the tank since even the smaller power types could be abit strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callatya Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 How many should I have and should / or could I have a few platies or swordtails too because the are pretty much the same but are they the same to breed??? I'd say a trio (1M +2F) in a 10L tank, and only guppies or endlers. Both platies and swordtails would need about 4x the amount of space. Myself, I found the platies a little bit trickier to breed because once ytou get an eye for it, you can tell when the guppies are going to give birth. The platies are a little bit more tricky, although they seem to be less inclined to hunt and eat all their babies. Could I also have a little sucking fish to clean the tank instead of snails??? 3 fish living and breeding in 10L is already pushing the boundaries, I'd not be adding snails or sucker fish. you will most likely cause the tank environment to become toxic with ammonia and nitrite. If you have the lighting for it though, I would consider adding a plant or two. Also how long can guppies go for without any food because i will be going away and if i get them before we go would they last the day or 2 without getting food? A day or two is fine. don't overfeed the day before you go, because it will just create more waste and if you aren't there to fix it you could come back to a big mess. Just feed normally before you leave, and do not add 'weekend' feeder blocks. Also what do the fry eat when they are born? I used to feed mine a mix of crushed adult foods, but I suspect that they would take frozen BBS or daphnia, grindal worms, or dry fry food. I wouldn't suggest dividing the tank in two, it'll be hard enough to keep a 10L tank stable with 3 fish, and a 5L tank is really not suited for breeding anything. They won't have enough swimming room and you will have much less margin for error. Leave it at 10, and just get the one trio to start with If you want more, consider underbed storage boxes. They are nice and big, so you could raise your fry in there, and you could just pick out the specific fish you wanted to breed and pop them in your little tank so you can watch them :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Elflett Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 What you have to account for also is that the first 'trio' will probably number around 20 within a month... and another 20 the month after that, as the first fry are now recognisably fish... by the time you have 60 fry, the first 20 will be showing some colours... by 80, you can choose which you want to keep... BUT you've got 10L FULL of guppies now... 10 surviving fry from a batch from a gravid female is reasonably conservative, btw... as long as you have plants, java fern or foxtail, wisteria - frondy stuff they can hide in, they're remarkably good at making it through from a batch of 20-40 babies, even with a hungry mum after 'em... I am *just* staying ahead of the fry in my 60L, supplying friends, a school, and one LFS with my outcasts... (anyone in SA want guppies??? lol) - they're not called millions fish for nothing... If you wanted to try and 'line breed' 'em, btw, you're going to need two tanks, one for males, one for females... the males are displaying and trying to get with the females from about six weeks, and the female stores sperm for up to three batches of fry, so it takes a while to get the chosen fish 'clean' if you can't seperate 'em... and a third tank to let them actually 'do the deed'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebetta Posted July 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 if i seperated the male for a while would he get lonely because they are meant to be school fish?? And is it necesarry to have a filter? Sorry bout all this but my tanks measurements are 39cm L, 15cm W and 21cm D. My filters measurements are 13cm High 8 cm wide and 13 around the front. This is a pic of my filter and my filter sitting infront of my tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Elflett Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 Guppies aren't actually schooling fish, although they do show *some* schooling behaviour if predators are present - they DO benefit from being kept in large quantities, but that will happen naturally within a few months - lone guppies don't live any recordably shorter lives (they're not a long lived fish to start with, a 2-3 years at best - hence the prolific breeding) and it's worth noting the warmer the water the shorter the life span - but the more active they are in your tank, too... From my experience, in 9 months with guppies, in two different tanks, I'd ditch the foam filter in favour of a little internal power head all in one unit... they don't generate any huge amount of waste, if you have 3-4 times the volume of the tank turnover per hour, the size of the unit has sufficient media for the bacterial colony, and you'll find they greatly appreciate the current from a spray bar aimed at the surface, spending ages swimming happily against it... BTW, your question about 'without food' - they do handle going without food - all fish can, and do - however they are at their best fed several times a day, in very small amounts - this is because they have next to no stomach, so their energy comes more directly from what they eat... if you have plants of some sort, especially java moss, they'll do well nibbling at algae growth and infusoria while you're not feeding them - and the addition of a mystery snail will help consume food they miss, and generate infusoria for the fry and the adults to eat, too... My guppies at work go fine over the weekend with no food, but they have plenty of plants to pick at in there, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callatya Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 You definitely need a filter. If that one is too big, and your funding is limited, look at the Penn Plax Smallworld or the Lee Disposable filters. They run off an air pump and are much more slimline than the one you currently have, and I find them to be more efficient too. Best part is that with a hacksaw and a bit of silicone, they aren't too hard to refill The way that tank is now, it'll be very hard to keep stable. There are very few places for the good bacteria to grow. Is there a reason that you don't have gravel or sand in there? That would help keep the tank running smoothly by giving the bacteria more surfaces to grow on You'd need to either pick large or small gravel, because the middlesized gravel (the size of the common goldy coloured one) has a bad habit of squishing the fry that try to hide in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebetta Posted July 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 That tank at the moment isn't fit for anything. It has been like that for a while after i took the fighters out cause i am too lazy. I should put some sand in it too. It will get a damn good clean before I get the guppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Elflett Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 Another option would be a HOB (Hang On Back) filter - they usually have room for more media in them, rather than using cartridges, so you can mix and match with things like zeolite, nitrazorb, carbon, noodles, wool, etc - if you get one that includes a bio wheel, or can be packed with bio balls, you can add yet another significant amount of filtration area - bio wheels are the bees knees for bacterial filtration, too, as the wheel gives lots of oxygen for the bacteria to use as it feeds = happy bacteria eat lots of ammonia and nitrites... :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebetta Posted July 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 We also have this one which came with one of the Elite Goldfish sets that u get. It is pretty powerful even turned right down. Has anyone had experience with them and would it be suitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callatya Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 Might be OK, if you can have some way to cut the flow a touch so you don't end up having your fry sucked into it. If you point the output towards the wall of the tank (so, sort of poke the nozzle sideways so it bumps a wall first as opposed to flying out into the middle of the tank) that should avoid the whirlpool scenario. Your tank is actually 12L, and that is rated for 11L, BUT it has a turnover of 20x per hour. The recommended turnover is 7-9x per hour, so even if you hobble the flow, it is going to give you some current. I'm not certain, but I tend to find that hobbling filters adds more wear to the motors too. If you were just keeping fish in the tank, then yeah, I'd use it with some strategically placed rocks. For breeding, even something as precocious as guppies, I'd probably want something with less grunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebetta Posted July 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 I have decided now that i have my tank set up and running that the filter should be alright. I just hope it wont suck the fry in!!!! I will have to only run it in the day because the tank is in my room and it is to noisy at night. Does anyone know how to make them quieter?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebetta Posted July 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Yesterday I got 1 male guppy and 2 fat females and a albino cory.( I will put pics up later) This morning I now have atleast 13 guppies. The big orange female had atleast 11 babies but the yellow female ate one and the other fry are in a container that is in the main tank. There could still be some in the weeds though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 I wouldn't turn your filter off at night. The bacteria is dependent on oxygen to survive. If you turn off its O2 source you may experience a die-off in the bacteria which will compound the problem of the ammonia produced by the fish themselves. what is noisy about it? The air pump or the bubbles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Elflett Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 I wouldn't turn your filter off at night. The bacteria is dependent on oxygen to survive. If you turn off its O2 source you may experience a die-off in the bacteria which will compound the problem of the ammonia produced by the fish themselves. Seconded - in an hour of stagnation, you start to experience bacterial die off - if you turn your filter off at night, you'll be starting a new filter every morning... you're also turning it off when dissolved oxygen levels are most critical, when any plants in the tank are consuming oxygen rather than CO2... I found air driven filters noisy too, though - if they're too close to the surface of the water, you get noise like a bad venturi filter, too - I dropped the flow rate down considerably, and could still see particulate matter drawn into the filter, so you may be able to turn the bubbles down some and get away with it at night... Is it your filter, or the air pump that's too noisy??? Air pumps can, and should be all but silent - I've had some shockers though, one that sounded like a hundred tiny little drummers all pounding on the counter... if so, go up a price bracket in your air pump, or listen to a few at an LFS (under load, without backpressure they're louder) to see what's worth buying... Last, but not least, look at some of the range from AA - they do a small 12V powerhead, designed for their smallest tanks, which doesn't have too much flow - draw water through the sponge filter with that, and either run it back into the tank through a trickle bed or a foam difusser... way quieter than a bubbler, and you'll get added filtration... Bear in mind though, that hang on filters are the way to go for nano's - minimal tank space used for the filter, good flow without a lot of current, plenty of space for media, and most of 'em can either cascade or trickle the water back in... you can even get tiny bio wheels for nano's, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebetta Posted July 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 I have made it a bit quieter now and I am getting used to it so I am going to leave it on all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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