BDP Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Hey all, I got this Plakat the other day and was wondering if its a melano black, a marble black or something that isnt a true black at all? Fairly hard to guess without seeing the parents but I thought this coloration (black orchid?) may only pop up under a certain condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 It's black lace/black orchid and might have some melano in the background. It's a marble-based black and the females are fertile. He's very pretty Where is he from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDP Posted July 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Thanks for that! I got him from Slippery Little Suckers here in Sydney. So being marble based, I dont have a very good chance of getting Black offspring from him . Bit of a shame but he's still a great active little fish :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 nononono You can still get black fish if you breed him to a girl of the same color/carrying black lace. You might get marbles but you'll get solids too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDP Posted July 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 fantastic! *begins the hunt* :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Stefan, why do you describe it as marble based black? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 It's been imprinted in my mind that black lace and marble based black are the same. It might not be, and I'm terribly sorry if I've gotten it wrong. The betta in the pic above looks really dark to be black lace on it's own, and I've seen the same phenotype produced from a spawn of marble-based blacks, so I said marble-based. Theres a bit of info out there that might clear things up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 no no, I wasn't implying that you were wrong. I just didn't know why you said it. I have a very vague recollection of a similar thing which your comment revived but it's foggy and unclear, and I was hoping you'd be able to tell me the answer, LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 This might be it: http://www.bettysplendens.com/articles/pag...p?articleid=961 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDP Posted July 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 thats the article i was looking at which led me to my comment on not getting black fish as the article states breeding marble based blacks gives unpredictable results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Yep, I was looking at that article earlier in the hopes that it might clear it up, but I can't see any written distinction between the 2 non-melano types :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callatya Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Unpredictable can be a good thing. Not really sure what the benefit would be for having marble? Possibly the melano/double black appearance without the inferility factor because of the difference in genes? It seems like a dodgy way to go about making blacks because not only are you not sure if you have permanent or transient marble (probably permanent judging by that depth of colour, but you never know) but the level of unpredictability in offspring would most likely cause a lot of people to steer clear. That is quite a deep colour, but not really "molly black". What makes it more likely to be marble-base than double-black? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 the advantage is that the marble black is darker than black lace, I guess Plus it is fertile. So you could have an awesome black fish you send to a show and he turns marbly in 2 days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbies Betta Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 yep, marble-based blacks tend to have a darker hue of black, and females are fertile. Tho out of ur spawn, the majority could be marble, with u getting only 1 or 2 solid blacks. But those blacks are worth it :D Good looking fish there BDP I'd deff be looking for a female for him :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callatya Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Darker than what? Darker than black lace, but what are they when compared to melano and double black? Still darker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Double black and melano still show alot of irid. With marble black, if you get dark black fish, they are going to be without any irid. But there is no guarantee that the black wont marble out. Ig you look at the marble-base black in the link you can see that it is extremely dark and lacking irids. It isn't often that you see melano like that and if you do establish a good marble base black line you have good chances of producing the ideal black. Of course I am not a specialist on blacks so I hope someone with all the answers comes along quickly :thumbs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDP Posted July 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 Suppose this could pop up tonight in the Chat Thanks robbies betta, I might just do that, I dont have a lot of room though and i'd like to spawn another pair after the current fry are big enough and/or I find them alternative living arrangements . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Black lace IS the MARBLE BASE BLACK Full stop. From what I've read, they were made by a prison inmate trying to produce black. The marble lets the irrid show through (as far as I can figure it) and causes a black that is not extremely dense (but the better specimens are really very dark), at least from what I've seen. Double black is black lace x melano, and that makes for very very dark fish unless the marble shows up, in which case you can get ALOT of marbles but the blacks should be good... Double black x Double black should give double blacks, melanos, and black lace, with the lace and the DB females being fertile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Thanks so much for that info Stefan - that's really interesting, and one of life's mysteries (what is marble-based black) solved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 No problem Lisa I didn't quite understand it myself untill I re-read some stuff this afternoon. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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