Algae Bubbling After H2O2 Spot Dosing

[shadoh]

I just remembered that I had promised someone (can't remember who it was now...) a video of algae bubbling after spot dosing it with Hydrogen Peroxide. To be honest, this algae wasn't really bothering me, but since I have been videoing the tank, it jogged my memory...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNNwwwhHCnw

[Matt_95]

I love dosing H2O2!!! It feels so good to destroy the algae haha. it bubbles because the peroxide is made up of 2 hydrogen atoms and two oxeygen atoms, when it reacts one of the oxeygen atoms is ripped off and imediatly bonds to another forming O2 gas. Sorry, I'm a chemistry nut...

I love dosing H2O2!!! It feels so good to destroy the algae haha. it bubbles because the peroxide is made up of 2 hydrogen atoms and two oxeygen atoms, when it reacts one of the oxeygen atoms is ripped off and imediatly bonds to another forming O2 gas. Sorry, I'm a chemistry nut...

[shadoh]

So excited, you had to say it twice, huh milkcrate?

Yeah, I know - iPod. I've done it heaps with my iPhone too...

The double posting.... not H2O2...lol

[Nicola]

I love dosing H2O2!!! It feels so good to destroy the algae haha. it bubbles because the peroxide is made up of 2 hydrogen atoms and two oxeygen atoms, when it reacts one of the oxeygen atoms is ripped off and imediatly bonds to another forming O2 gas. Sorry, I'm a chemistry nut...

I love dosing H2O2!!! It feels so good to destroy the algae haha. it bubbles because the peroxide is made up of 2 hydrogen atoms and two oxeygen atoms, when it reacts one of the oxeygen atoms is ripped off and imediatly bonds to another forming O2 gas. Sorry, I'm a chemistry nut...

you would get this joke then

Yes it is a bit of a silly joke but i chuckled..

Edited December 26, 2011 by Nicola

[Matt_95]

That's so funny!!! I get chemistry jokes... Not physics jokes though seriously, physics is not funny.

[Matt_95]

Why do chemistry professors like to teach about ammonia?  Because it's basic material.

What do you do with a dead chemists?  Barium

[Nicola]

Have you heard this?

Sorry about the Hijack

*resumes original thread*

[Matt_95]

I don't know, it's blocked....

[Nicola]

:/Oh hum i had no problems watching it, its the element song by Tom lehrer.

[Matt_95]

Is it the one with the Lego man?

[shadoh]

:hijack: *lol*

[Nicola]

Don't think so matt, but there are lots of versions on youtube, its baisically him naming all the elements in a song its cool..

Sorry Jarrod about the hijack :lol:

[Sarah]

Now to make my first chemisty joke. Aw, ALL THE GOOD ONES ARGON!

Now I feel part of it.

Back to the thread. Sorry Jarrod.

[melbournebetta]

Swerving DANGEROUSLY back on topic

I've never had an alge problem.... until my 3 footer with the turq spawn kids, and lots of natural light - I also have a fluro in there (T5) that's probably on for too long.

While I need to look at what causes algae - JArrod, how did you dose this safely so it didn't strip the scales off your fush?

[shadoh]

Ness - I had given up hope that this topic would get back on track THANKS!!!

I found the dosage online somewhere, but can't remember where just now. I'll hunt dosage down later as it will be handy to have on hand for anyone brave enough to make it this far through the thread...

What I did was work out the maximum dose for my tank and measured it out. That way there was no way I could overdose. Then I used a syringe to spot dose the algae directly. Any left over went back into the bottle.

Make sure you turn your filter off for 15-20 mins.

Simple :)

[melbournebetta]

Its really odd, I never had algae prior to this...

Some of the net research tells me that green algae is caused by excess light.... The brown is caused by a lack (totally simplified)

Found this link helpful: http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/algae/a/attackalgae.htm

(from that site)

What Causes Algae Overgrowth?

Like any plant life, algae thrive on three basic necessities: water, sunlight and nutrients. If an excess of any are available, algae will grow like wildfire, just like weeds growing in a garden.

Types of algae:

Already have algae in your aquarium, and need to get rid of it? Knowing the type of algae will help determine the cause and cure. Here are commonly seen algae types, and how to deal with them. For more information about a specific type, click on the link provided.

Brown, also known as Gravel or Silica algae. Common in new tanks, it will coat the tank in sheets, which are easily wiped off. It is usually harmless and will eventually go away as the tank matures.

Blue-Green, also known as Slime or Smear algae – Caused by excesses of nitrates and phosphates, this is actually not an algae at all. Instead it is a cyanobacteria. It can spread rapidly, and can cause considerable damage. Good water care will help, but if your water source has phosphates in it, you may have to use special treatments to remove the excess nutrients. Erythromycin is also effective against Blue-Green algae.

Red or Beard algae – This one is the toughest algae to get rid of, and usually appears on plants. A dip in weak bleach solution (5 to 10%) for a few minutes will often kill this algae.

Green, also known as Hair, Thread, or Spot algae – This is a normal healthy type of algae that every tank will most likely experience in some degree. As long as the tank is well cared for, it will not overgrow.

Green Water, also known as Algae Bloom – This is caused by growth of microscopic algae that are suspended in the water. It is one of the more frustrating types of algae to remove, as can't be wiped or scraped off like other algae. Generally water changes are not effective, as the remaining algae will quickly grow back. Use of a diatomic filter, or completely blocking all light for several days is usually necessary to conquer green water.

[Matt_95]

C)2 is teh root of all algae issues in the planted aquarium, I'm no good at exlaining it but I suggest you read soem of Tom Barrs work. The idea that excess nutrients causes algae is from the 60's I believe... If you don't inject CO2 you have to make sure you don't have to much light, don't add to much phosphate ect.

[Matt_95]

I should have said almost all algae issues are rooted in CO2, the vast majority are this is a good read by Tom Barr.

Our goal is more horticulture, to grow and garden aquatic plants.

So we focus on providing good conditions for plant growth.

Plants, not nutrients define the system and their ability to grow and flourish.

Ever seen a tank with algae and flourishing plants? I haven't. No one likes that look. They want nice healthy plants and no algae.

In tanks where the plants are flourishing and doing very well we see little if any algae. We often assume many things about plants and think they are doing fine and we suddenly see "algae". What is the balance that kept things going well, prior? => the health and growth rate of the plants.

These two may change some and you not notice it, only seeing the algae issue.

Algae are good indicators that something is wrong with the health and growth rates of the plants. Plants themselves can also be indicators and often are. Getting them to grow well again is the key here. EI just rules out non limiting nutrients, it does not rule out too much light or provides ample CO2.

No nutrient dosing method does that. So blame needs to be applied fairly/reasonably and look at the user and their light and CO2 systems much more carefully than nutrients which are rather easy to test and rule out causes.

These tanks can seemingly have little or a great deal of nutrients, both are seen and there is a wide range of observed ppm's for N, P etc. Why is that? Well, light and CO2 play a role also. Less light, less nutrients, also sediment sources can make up for seemingly low water column ppm's and poor testing can also lead to poor conclusions, as is often the case.

So sediment sources + water column dosing are synergistic, they make both methods easier.

As long as the sediment is not messy and you are not making a mess as well, then this is a good method to add to any water column dosing routine.

Less light = less CO2 demand = less nutrient demand. This is obvious to most people. and well supported in research from the Ecology to the Molecular levels.

Fish load also can and does add some variation as well and load of nutrients(plenty for algae to never be limited).

Plant biomass differences between tanks also play roles, and often tanks are nutrient limited which causes issues for CO2 demand(reduces the CO2 demand often several times), so if you add non limiting amounts of nutrients, then you have much more CO2 demand as result, if the CO2 is not adjusted for this, then you end up with algae, not from too many nutrients, rather, lack of enough CO2.

Such indirect relationships cause many to assume algae is limited by nutrients, without considering what and how the plants are affected and without regard or measure of the CO2 and light critically.

This was common decades or so ago, not so much today, but many "still cling to the past". Ironically referring to themselves as new, more evolved methods that dose less than EI etc. If you have low light, then it's not an issue, the tank is not limited by nutrients or CO2. If you have a PO4 limited tank, then you are not limiting algae, you are limiting CO2 demand from the plants.

Very poor conclusions and even worst test method/s.

You can find tanks with no PO4 measured and low limited PO4 and algae ridden. Likewise, where's my algae bloom if limited PO4 works as claimed? If this is true then I should be able to induce algae and run and high risk or a bloom if this theory is correct. However, I've never been able to do it, even at 10-50-100x the suggested amounts to keep the tank limited with PO4. This stuff is easy to test and rule out their potential cause.

So both case experiments where we add lots and add none at all do not explain the results and observations. Yet they still believe it

I guess the world is flat to some folks:cool:

You can show reason, logic, experiments, results, examples based on a wide range of observations,(not just the critics' aquarium), suggest test and adding more CO2, reducing light etc to show and demonstrate this.

They can go on with their rants about belief and simply not get that the system in not as simple as they want to try and suggest, yet in some ways, it is very simple: take good care of the plants, then there's no algae issues.

On this point, most everyone is in agreement.

Regards,

Tom Barr