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Little Help Please


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Hi All,

I have just started out with the fighting fish species and hope to breed them one day. I have currently had the four that i own for about three months but no luck just yet. But i think the first concern should be determining what i have and their gender which im a little bit confused about even though i bought them as two males and two females.





Any help in identifying the type and the gender of these four would greatly be appreciated

Edited by Aaron1123
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First pic is Veil tail male

Second pic is Veil tail male

Third pic is Veil tail male (can be female, but I go for male due to his long ventrals)

Fourth pic seems like female. Not sure what kind of tail as the tail is damaged.

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Yep, from the photos I'd have to second what Felix has said.

They look to be in a community tank - or at least one of them is - have you got any of the top three in the same tank?

If they aren't separated, might I suggest that you do, and pop a bit of aquarium salt in the tank too - it might help speed up the tail repair.

If you want to get into the breeding, perhaps you might want to have a word with someone in Sydney about finding some breeding stock?

Nothing wrong with cutting your teeth on veil tails, but there's some reasonably priced halfmoons or unusual tail-types out there too.

Food for thought.


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thanks for that, i kind of suspected that maybe all four were males. i currently have 1 and 4 together with some danios whilst 2 and 3 are also together with some clouds just to clean up some rubbish mainly. i've had them together basically since the day i got them and they dont fight or anything at all so that has confused me as well

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Well, to be honest, from the looks of it, number 4 is pretty beat down.. The picture is a bit hard to see for damage, but number 2 seems to have damage on anal fin, and number 3 seems to have damage on caudal fin (towards the end of the caudal). I could be wrong though, just what I can see from the picture.

Also, white clouds fish needs significantly lower temperature requirement than Betta (they need 18-22C, whereas Betta need 24-28C). Do you use heater? If you do, clouds wont be happy. If you don't, Betta won't be happy.

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when i bought her she was exactly the same and hasnt really improved which is a bit disappointing. They dont appear to fight with one another so they might have had that since i bought them. Is there anything i can do to help them improve such as the aquarium salt.

The tank sits at 23C without a heater and with summer coming up it will probably get hotter but does make sense as to why they have never really built any form of bubble nest

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Hey Aaron,

I'm thinking of putting my 'care sheet' on the Vic Betta website, but in the meantime - you might want to look into a test kit for the following (as your water quality will be directly represented by the health)


Carbonate hardness



Temperature - yeah, it gets to 26, but it's not stable all the time, even if you had a little heater in there set at 25, it would buffer the drops of temperature at night.... if they get cold, their immune systems shut down. (handy hint)

Other things you might want to consider adding to the water are carbonate hardness powder - stabilises ph and hardness - and i swear by it as my secret weapon against velvet/itch/rot/everything.

Aquarium salt helps introduce minerals into the water, therefore encouraging the fish to keep it's minerals inside (if the water is mineral deficient, the fish will leach it's own minerals) also a pinch of shell grit can help bring up the calcium

it's quite a science balancing a tank, and particularly the smaller the environment, the easier and more unstable it is.

Something else to add might be indian almond leaves or black water extract, it's been proven to boost immunity and is a natural antibiotic antiseptic anti...something (excuse my brain-lag, I am working on 2 hours sleep, stupid Spirit of Tasmania)


So the other thing you'd be better off doing, is separating all the betta... sure, they might not fight much, but if you want them less stressed, happy, healthy and in breeding condition - seperate. Maybe even with a perforated divider in the same tank? Believe me, if you look into your water quality - get the balance of "which fish live best with which" you'll have totally new fish! (they are lookin' a bit rough)

Hope that's been helpful!


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thanks for that i will definitely be separating them immediately and taking measures to make them a lot more happy such as water treatment which i previously hadnt done only the water conditioner.

the tank that i have is already setup for 4 divisions but i thought that there would be more chance of them breeding if they were together rather than separated.

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Hi Aaron,

in my opinion, if they are left together without conditioning, there's more chance of them killing one another rather than breeding. (not saying chance of breeding is 0)

And the girl's fin should heal given the right condition. Are they still flaring at each other?

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Hey Aaron. Seems like the guys are steering you in the right direction. Also seems you're flying alittle blind at the moment. Unfortunately for you, you have picked a species of fish which even experienced breeders find challenging to spawn. This means you'll need to do a bit of reading and a fair bit of preparation in order to get success in the water bed room!

Basics include:

Good water

Healthy and "conditioned" pair

Spawning tank (set up and contents vary per breeder preference)

Food for the fry - nothing beats live food (microworms (MW), vinegar eels (VE), baby brine shrimp (BBS). alternatives exist but success rates will be best with live food.

Lots of details go in between all those things. Most of these basics and details are described in the pinned topics in general discussion forum, spawn talk forum and also in the "articles" link from the homepage. Have a look - there's loads to sink your teeth into and you'll have so much more to base your spawn attempts on. I'd link the relevant pages, but I'm finding it a little difficult as I'm posting from iPhone.

Hope we can help with getting to a successful spawn. Good luck!


Ps pics of fish

1,2and 3 male

4 female (almost definitely)


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Hey Aaron, got home and thouhgt I'd add a couple links for you to get started. First is Ausaqaua's own spawntalk forum... look at the pinned topics, or browse through other topics that have been posted. Many questions and answers here:


The other is a website run by Joep from the Netherlands. He's got a load of information on his website. Take a look:


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Pretty much what's in the care sheets etc.

Good water = stable water parameters with minimizing waste/waste byproducts (eg ammonia etc). If you're using tap water for water changes then pre treat with dechlorinator or age the water - or both. Adding Indian Almond Leaf (IAL) is a traditional "tonic" for promoting healthy fish and improved water conditions for bettas.

Healthy fish = free from disease and damage. Active, alert, interactive fish with no fin rot or other common fish ailments.

Conditioned = fish which have been given a period of treatment to prepare them for the very rigorous and stressful courtship that they need to undertake. Rough guide - 2 weeks of high protein foods (live food is great), regular "exercise" with flaring sessions either infront of a mirror with other fish (separated but visible to each other, of course!). This should provide the exercise to prepare them for the marathon they need to run when attempting a spawn.


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