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Buffy & Angel (Fish)


melbournebetta
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So......................... I've been toying with building a long narrow display tank, and while I do enjoy my betta sorority... I'm thinking of branching out of the betta box.

(this feverish fish keeping hobby has taken over my life - now I want it to take over the lounge room)

I would love a small school of big long finned black black inky male angel fish... yet to decide on the size of the tank, I would probably be looking at an external eheim canister filter, hidden among the heavily planted swords and whatever else I can keep alive in the tank...

Can anyone tell me what they're like- temperamentally?

If there's an ideal gender ratio?

If they prefer company or if they're more independent... will they "school"?

I've heard about the risk introducing other species into the tank, so I understand the risk - is there a little tetra/schooling smaller fish that they might be able to live with?

Thoughts?

Is there anyone with contacts with breeders? (I'm a snob and want fancy pants show ponies in my tank)

Here's what I've deciphered thusfar:

Ideal temps are broad - but best kept at one temp constantly: 22-35 degrees (but kept at around 25 for my needs)

"If you are someone who cannot feed more than twice a day, we would recommend keeping and raising angelfish at a temperature no warmer than 77° F./25 celcius" -http://www.angelsplus.com/faqangel4.htm

"The Scalare prefers slightly acidic water. They will usually do best if you manage to keep the pH between 6.5 and 6.9. The water in their natural environment is very soft, and the water in the aquarium should therefore ideally be from 0.6 to 1.2 dH."

-http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/cichlid/angelfish.php

Different varieties here: http://ozfishforsale.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=927.0

i LOVE this one & Quite like the Super veil tail and Crown tail (ARGH these terms in cross-species definition!) however will probably just stick to standard Caudal tail types - but want monster anal/dorsal/ventrals (or whatever I can get)

Anything else I should be thinking about while I toy with this insane idea?

angel.jpg

-Ness

MelbourneAngel/Buffy/Betta

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Can anyone tell me what they're like- temperamentally?

They're most of the time peaceful, especially towards the other species. When they start breeding though, they're like 2 male bettas, that is friendly to each other; guarding the same nest, they'll chase out any other fish and sometimes even try to attack you, or at least showing aggression from inside the tank if you're getting too close.

If there's an ideal gender ratio?

Not really, but they do best with a group of 4-5 or more. Unless they're a proven breeding pair. Not to mention, it's really hard to sex them if they are not in 'breeding-mode' or if they are not fully grown.

If they prefer company or if they're more independent... will they "school"?

Yes, they will school. However with too few of them, the dominant one will bully each other.

Is there a little tetra/schooling smaller fish that they might be able to live with?

I've used cardinal and neon black tetras. They're alright when the angels are still small. However, when the angels are fully grown, they might snack on the tetras. Emperor tetras would be large enough not to fit their mouth, but due to the size, the school may need a bigger tank. Cardinal tetras -may- be alright though.

Is there anyone with contacts with breeders? (I'm a snob and want fancy pants show ponies in my tank)

Can't help you on this one here. Sorry :(

Edited by kertaz
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By a 'small school' how small do you actually mean?

Like a Betta sorority, they will get along better in larger numbers, or you are best off with just a breeding pair. More on that later...

I have 7 now in my 90lt tank and am upgrading to a 48 x 18 x 24, that's 300lt or so and should hold the number the fish I've got even at full adult size. I went for 18 wide because it will be a fully decked out planted tank. :P

Depending on the tank size you go with, I'd get a group of 6-8 and let them grow up together, some will eventually pair off and if someone is getting picked on you can just take them back and get more. I've added ones the size of 20c coins in with my breeding pair when they were about 3.5in in body length (fins not included) and while the female was unhappy and chased them away, things settled down and they are now fine.

Sexing them can be difficult even as adults and sexing them at the sizes you see them in an LFS is impossible. I wouldn't even worry about it. Buy a group and remove the 1-2 trouble makers you'll likely get.

If you want a breeding pair, buy 4 and let them grow up. You'll get two pair off (it's obvious when they do) and you can sell the others if they are getting picked on or disturbing the breeding pair.

Temperament varies as much as Bettas do. You get the ones who don't get along with anybody, you get ones who is every bodies best friend and the odd loner. They are all pretty intelligent fish and will recognize their owner/feeder, lol. I can't really say they school, but that's likely my tank size. They do hang out in groups, though.

By the time they get to adult size they will easily fit tetra and rasbora in their mouths. That said my pair are big enough to eat the rasbora in there at the moment but they don't. That may change though and if it does I'll just switch to a larger tetra like widow or diamond. I don't worry about it, everything is kept well fed. I did lose a few Espei and my Maculata to a feisty shark though.

Standard tropical fish temperature of 26 is fine. Mine are kept in soft acidic water because that's what most of the fish in there prefer, and so do the plants. They are fine in neutral though.

Hmm, I think that's everything? I have no connections to breeders. I just buy whatever pretty fish happen to land in the shop. :)

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Thanks guys - that's super handy.

This is all been brewing for a little while now - so obviously without a location for the tank (need to negotiate with the housemates) it's all very up in the air.

I like the idea of a narrow(ish) 25cm tank x around 70 long x 50(ish) cm high ....or those sorts of proportions, long, narrow and upright. (around 80 litres)

Like an angel plasma!

I'm keen on keeping it heavily planted, so wouldn't mind trying some bigger tetras or other lil schooling fish, they'll have green coverage - and if they turn into live food - lesson learnt.

Pretty keen on adults (bigger = better for Nessa's shiny showpony tank) Maybe if I can locate a breeder they'll have an adult breeding pair that are happy together....

So the headcount is either 2 /or/ 6-8..........

One site has suggested Special requirements: Should be kept singly, in a group of five or more, or as a pair. - http://joshday.com/angelfish.htm

Maybe just one? hmm... How long do they take to reach adult size?

According to this site there should be around 7-10 litres per fish http://www.angelsplus.com/faqangel3.htm

-researchNess

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7-10 litres per fish would work only when they are still young. If you're aiming for adults, you'd need around 40 litres as bare minimum. Note that if you are keeping heavily planted tanks, then the volume of water will be reduced (due to substrates and plants)

Rather than upgrading the tanks (which -may- cause more trouble and cost you more money in the long run), it may be better to have the bigger tank up running straight away :)

If you do keep six to eight, your chances of getting a pair would be almost 100%. Maybe 99.9%? Unless you're really unlucky that all of them are male or all of them are female :lol:

Are you eventually planning to breed them as well, Ness? :lol:

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For that size tank I'd say you can have one pair and that's that, especially if you're going for straight out adults.

God only knows how long it takes to get to adult size. Everyone will have a different experience based on feeding habits, temperature, tank size, etc.

I think you misread that site. It's saying 10 gallons per mature breeding fish, that's just under 40lt. :P

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I haven't found anything yet that won't live with them just fine, LOL. Mind you my biggest one is at about 4 inch in body length now.

Rams or Apistogrammas are a good choice but only one or the other, do not mix.

I love love love me Pearl Gouramis in planted tanks with Angels, mine practically glow orange. Other gouramis work well too, dwarf or normal sized.

Corydoras are an excellent choice. I love me some Pandas and Peppered.

Bristlenose work well, too. I'll be getting some Peppermints for my big tank.

Larger tetra are a good fish for schooling. Sissortail, Diamond, Widow, Emperor, Bleeding Heart, etc.

Female Bettas or short finned males do fine as well but take caution mixing Bettas with Apistogrammas, some may also not get along with Gouramis but I've never had an issue.

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I'll be brutal, I'm a fussy designer - i'm literally taking a step back wondering what will look good, then working backward from that into what's practical.

IMO when it comes to BN / Gouramis they's not flashy enough.

I really wanted a schooling set of lil fish - i could even settle for some emperor tetras, but really wanted shiny colourful neons that'd look good against the green and black

(design darling sweetie design)

But big fish + little fish = dinner

I could just get 12 of Razzi's super blue ladies and teach them to swim in a group (HA!) that'd be hawt.

-Ness

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While they have some pretty amazing spots - I think I'm just a fussy little tart when it comes to fish.

(I'll be loosing friends after this post)

but I find pelco's bristlenose and all them fishus kinda - not...... "what I want to look at" ...is that the polite way of saying it?

(: Thanks for the thoughts tho!!!

I think I could totally enjoy a single (or pair) of adult angels... all black and beuuuuuuuuuuudiful.

x

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Well, thats personal preference :P Corydoras attracted me, but pleco and bristlenoses are.. not really. :lol:

I'd be picky when it's come to fish too (especially since space is limited..) It's just like Betta. Some people like a tail type more than other tail types.

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  • 1 month later...

I love this thread cause i have looked at breeding angels to and now i dont have to ask all the questions lol. My fiancee doesnt like my albino bristlnose they are boring apparentlly :).

Which brings me to my question. What is the likely hood of bristlenose breeding in the same tank as paired up angels ?

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