What about guppies?

[Callatya]

I am thinking I'd like to play with some very fancy guppies.

The problem is that I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to choosing a good fish by guppy standards, or even what the acronyms mean. I've done some hunting and come up with some good basic info, but a lot of what I'm finding seems to relate specifically to the strain of the particular breeder, so I'm not really sure if it is just *that* strain which is weaker, or that colour, or tail type or that combination of factors, or whathaveyou.

I was really hoping we had a guppy person floating around that could give me a shove in the right direction

What I've found so far:

Tail types

A breeder's strain page - piccies

*How far can you inbreed guppies of this calibre?

*Are there any colours that are undesirable (like red wash in bettas)?

*Are the lighter colours and albinos generally less tough, or doesn't it matter?

*How easily do the snazzier types breed compared to top shelf petshop types?

*Is it easier to improve colour or fins?

*Is the standard to aim for a delta tail?

[Stuart Elflett]

Inbreeding in guppies quickly causes deformed fry, so you can get an idea of how far you can go if you're *very* careful with managing the parentage - part of the issue is that they can store sperm for several batches of fry, so you could be waiting months before you can try reparenting with a new bloodline, or with a descendant, to prove anything...

I'm 'non-selectively' improving my guppies, simply by keeping what *I* see as attractive fish, and getting rid of the others - there's always someone happy to have free guppies out there... including those with larger fish that need live food...

Blondes, the more 'golden' than grey female guppies, seem to be inherently weaker fish than the big 'ole square set mother guppies I've got, who pop out babies like clockwork every month... blondes often die after or during their first spawning of fry, or the second, which is usually a larger batch... They *seem* to be weaker...

Colour strains seem more dominant than fin strains...

Are you looking to do this to sell, or to show?? That would affect the colours that are more desirable, basically... show fish are pickier, but if you can supply a tank full of one varietal guppies, LFS will love you... Doesn't seem to matter if they're neon blue, sunsets, whatever, a lot of the LFS prize a tank of repeatable fish over the 'random' assortments they get otherwise...

[KillieOrCory]

Hi Callatya,

I would just go for guppies you like the look of and not worry too much about much else as to what is a good fish or desirable fish. If you genuinely like the strain you'll improve it over time given space and time.

I got 6 strains I am working on at the moment and might get another 4 or so from someone soon. I currently use approx 25 tanks for breeding and raising my guppies. Here is my thought on the questions you have asked:

*How far can you inbreed guppies of this calibre?

In breeding can be an issue there are a number of ways you can go about minimizing the effects of inbreeding:

- Group breed them using multiple males and females in a large tank - this method is not desirable if you are quickly trying to improve a strain each generation; as this method is not specific enough and which trait is being passed on by which fish is impossible to detect. Though by picking the breeders carefully you maintain and still improve the strain over time with this method.

- Create two lines from the strain – you do this by picking two sets of breeders

eg. Grow the first few drops you are going to use as your next breeders (hopefully you raise them in male only and female only tanks).

*From this lot pick one male and two females for your first line where lets say you pick for: large tail on the male plus deep uniform colour. Hence you’ll pick a male with the best tail that fits the description and females with deep uniform colour on the tail. This is the start of your first line

*Again from the same fish you have raised pick for: largest spread for the tail first and then for uniform colouring. Hence you’ll pick a male with the largest tail that might have minor imperfections in colouring. You’ll also pick two females with the largest tail. This is the start of your second line.

You breed each line separate and pick future breeders from each line. 3 or 4 generations later introduce breeders from sister lines to mix it up a bit, and still keep lines separate. – with this method you have more control on genetic parentage of your offspring and pin point which fish is carrying the desirable characteristics you are after.

*Are there any colours that are undesirable (like red wash in bettas)?

As far as I am concerned there are no undesirable colours, whatever you find attractive you should breed for.

Having said that read into standards of certain strains, for example snakeskins having a dark spot on the body is not desirable if you are breeding show fish, but I bred the spot into my strain because I like it!!!

*Are the lighter colours and albinos generally less tough, or doesn't it matter?

Some strains and lines are weaker than others but it is very difficult to generalise. Usually albinos are more challenging to breed. There are also many strains that are not as prolific as the others so those strains are difficult to maintain and improve not because they are weaker but you always have fewer fish to work with.

*How easily do the snazzier types breed compared to top shelf petshop types?

See answer above. It is difficult to generalise different strains and lines of the same strains have varying degrees of prolificacy.

*Is it easier to improve colour or fins?

It all depends on the genetic material you start with. My only advise though decide on your aim and do not change your mind every generation or two. Decide on the improvement you are going for and keep working on it for minimum 6 generations before giving up.

*Is the standard to aim for a delta tail?

As there is not much chance to participate in international shows and even if we did we would be a few years behind in understanding the standard required, therefore I believe it is again up to you in what appeals to you. Just decide the tail type you like and your strain possess or potentially possess and go with that. I personally try to get my strains to increase the ‘spread’ over generations if there is an opportunity to work with this gene or genes.

That's about it from me

[Callatya]

Wow! thanks guys! I'm having to become a little guppy info sponge to try to understand all of this. It is a whole other world!

I'm looking at it for fun and for show, because chances are I'll have nothing ready to show when one rolls around, and if I concentrate on that alone, or even on one colour or fin type, it drains the fun right out of it. I'm hoping the LFS will be happy to take some, but if not I have some very skilled hunters around the place who would enjoy the opportunity to improve my breeding program

I might try a different method of breeding with each group and see how they all work out. Most likely I'll end up sticking with method A for the most part, but it'll depend on how kind summer is to us. There isn't much point doing much with the pinks until I know the females will give me that metallic colour, so they can just go nuts and I'll deal with them later when I know what they do. I have two pair of the albinos so I could run two separate groups from them. The pair of blacks (I chickened out, I was going to get full platinum but I figured blacks might be a bit less flaky) will just have to keep producing and I can deal with widening the gene pool later. Not sure what I'll do with Mr Pandaman and the boy/girl blue, I think 3 on the go is about enough. :)