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johnskillcorn
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I hope you'll accept this as an appropriate introduction from a new member from the UK. I live in Washington, with history going back to George of USA fame.

I keep killifish (South American annuals) and several wild Betta species, both groups of which I am currently breeding. SA killies go back years, but the Bettas are reasonably new to me and I'm in my second year with them. All things considered, I reckon I've been very successful with them and I'm currently breeding BB. 'antuta', 'palangkarensis', rubra, krataios, stigmosa, channoides and albimarginata. I'm lucky in that I've got an excellent contact/importer/mentor within travelling distance up in Glasgow - Colin Dunlop - who's a well-established Betta breeder, writer and importer.

I'm also breeding the dwarf cichlid Taeniacara candidi, as well as the newts Neurergus kaiseri.

Contact me if you feel you'd like to.

John Skillcorn

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Welcome to the forum! Almost (if not everyone) is from Australia, but I'm looking forward to learning from you. After seeing your recent posts, I am absolutely stocked to have you here so you can share a bit of your knowledge :D

I am a relatively new betta macrostoma breeder, but as soon as I find the space for more tanks ill definitely be getting some more wilds!

A large discussion we had on the forum was about the confusion we had with some scientific names. Thankfully you're breeding two and I can see you've put them in inverted commas- betta Palangkarensis and betta Antuta have had me and some others rightfully confused for a VERY long time! :P why did you out them in inverted commas?

Can't wait to hear more about your fishy adventures and once again, Welcome! :D

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Oh no, not a Makem!

My family is originally from Byker, Newcastle Upon Tyne, but I'm Aussie born and bred.

Welcome to the forum mate.

I'm relatively new to bettas, keeping some wild B. splendens, B. smaragdina, and B. mahachai. At the moment I have juvenile smaragdina and mahachai growing out.

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Hi there. Thanks for the warm welcomes! Firstly - and no offence meant here - I can accept the term 'Geordie' but I'm not into this Mak'em and Tak'em business. I know where it originates, but I just don't understand it or, in this area, find it helpful. In my day as a lad, if you were born in the North-East of England, then you were a Geordie, simple as that. Nivver mind, ahl this isn't gerrin' the bairn weshed. Let's gerron on ta'kin' fishies!

Macrostoma. Yes. I'm just about to take charge of a pair bred by a mate in Scotland, and I can't wait. When I've seen his fish I've been spellbound. Knocks my channoides into a cocked hat! Anyway, he's a very successful breeder of this species, so I'll no doubt be picking his brains over the next few months. You say you're a relatively new Betta macrostoma breeder, afr3178, but I'm assuming you've bred other species. Or is this your first Betta species!!? If it is, talk about baptism of fire!

Referring to your comments on the other species I breed. I'm sure you're aware that, until a species is formerly identified, its locality is generally taken as part of its reference name. Therefore to emphasise this fact their names are placed in inverted commas. Hence we have Betta 'Palangkarensis' and 'Antuta'. The former is known by several pseudo-scientific names, but if you have the opportunity to get it, take it. It's a gorgeous little fish, about 4 or 5 centimetres long, but very reminiscent of a small Betta foerschi with its red gill bars. Unlike them, though, they are bubble nesters. My Antuta are a different kettle of fish. They are large - around 10cms - but different from many of the photos I've seen alleging to be Antuta. They are paternal mouthbrooders. I have a crop of some 20 juveniles at the moment; neither parent seems to harm the fry.

It's always interesting to correspond with others, and especially those in other countries. As I keep saying, we all have the same problems but all seem to solve them in different ways!

John

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Nice to see another wild betta keeper join the forum :D I currently have around 10 species of wilds, but have owned more in the past.

I believe the Betta palangkarensis is from the coccina complex. Mine lives in with my burdigala and uberis pairs and is very similar in appearance to both these species. I am wondering whether rather than a new species it is just a different locality name for something like uberis.

Either way they are a nice looking little fish.

Hope to see you around and posting up some pictures of your collection!

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I bred splendens once before, but all the fry died after two weeks :( that was about a year ago. I got my first pair of macrostoma a few months ago and they're the only betta I've been able to successfully breed and keep fry alive... So far :P

Good luck when you get a pair!

I'm thinking of getting a pair of 'palanglarensis' soon because I've been really interested in them lately :)

I use photobucket to upload my photos.

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Very nice looking John. Does remind me a bit of the foerschi colouring, but then again strohi always seem like a larger version of the coccina complex bettas.

I think I have a female so mine is not as colourful as that. Her partner jumped out of his cup before I could pick them up from the store so I am waiting on a replacement to be ordered.

Nice photo too by the way, I know how hard it can be to get those few good ones.

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Not sure, I can never sex my coccina complex wilds half the time as they are just so similar in appearance. However, a lot of my male wilds get vertical bars as well so it's not exclusively a female thing.

Then again, maybe I just got a dud *lol*

Is it female in the first shot and male in the second? Or are they both the same fish?

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WOW. Thank you afr3178! I'll get the hang of it all before I'm 70!

The male has longer ventral fins than the female and a slightly longer dorsal. Otherwise they are very similar. I had them for weeks with no action whatsoever. Then I 'invented' my spawning tube and bingo. Within 20 minutes the male was inside it and they spawned the next day. From then on they've spawned regularly and once I realised that the pH HAD to be low they've never looked back. I keep it at 5.5 now and that seems to suit them fine.

And briztoon. No worries!! Keep in touch. I've been amazed at how friendly the Australians are, I've received a great welcome. Now all I need is someone who can give me a few pointers on how's the best way to modify the mouthpieces on my didgeridoos. Seriously.

John

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Hi Wild Nut. The top picture is of the female, the lower one the male. Well, I'm pretty sure they are anyway! If you had a tank full of them I think they'd be a nightmare to sex. There are visible similarities to B. burdigala, but having bred that one as well I'm sure they're different species. My burdigala spawned well below the water surface inside an upside-down flowerpot with an upside-down 'V' chipped into the side, but my Pelangs had this opportunity (among others) and refused it. They immediately took to a surface nest once they had been given satisfactory accommodation. Not that this would be the be-all and end-all of classification!! It's interesting, though.

The fry are peculiar inasmuch as once they get to about a centimetre in length they develop a 'shining' silvery spot on the top of their heads just above the eyes. I've not seen this before.

John

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My coccina complex bettas have all different ways of spawning. My rutilans and brownorum males like to mouthbrood while my persephone male used to bubblenest in his PVC pipe, and the tussyae built his one and only bubblenest at the surface under an IAL.

Melbourne tap water tends to be very soft (at least where I am) and I use peat moss and IALs to get the pH as low as possible.

That whole complex of bettas are lovely though. I am a big fan of persephone especially and it is always nice when your fish feel comfortable enough to breed for you.

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Persephone are on my wish list. You can't get them here in the UK. Well, as far I know. You are so lucky having them.

VERY interesting what you say about rutilans and brownorum. My brownorum haven't spawned for me yet, so I don't know what to expect. All the indications that I've come across indicate bubble nesters, so that's what I've been looking for! I've only had them a month or so, therefore they are very new to me. As for rutilans, mine spawn regularly but always use a bubble nest. Having said that, I've yet to get a fry out of the nest. Again, I'm suspecting a pH problem like I had with 'Palangkarensis'.

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I have had awful luck with keeping my persephone alive. I lost my last two pairs and now have one adult female and around 25 fry growing out. Fry are fortunately doing excellent so really hoping I have a male in there.

I believe some members of the coccina complex can switch between mouthbrooding and bubblenesting. My rutilans and brownorum males tend to brood and then about three or four days later build a little nest and release their fry into that. I have around 7 sub-adults in my rutilans tank. I would have had more but had a lot of predation from my original fry at the beginning. They have suffered through velvet recently, but prior to that would spawn once a week at least.

I have six brownorum (3 pairs) and only one pair spawns. They usually spawn once or twice a week but then I think the other adults in the tank are eating the fry as I can never find any. I am hoping they spawn again soon and this time I am going to move brooding dad to another tank to get some fry out of him.

My uberis and burdigala are all in together (supposedly have uberis pair and two females and one male burdigala) and have not seen any breeding action from them. They came over from Indonesia (got them from xtrembetta) and I am going to try and separate them out into different tanks and see if that changes anything.

Sorry for the massive post. Not too many people keep the smaller species so it's great to meet someone who has some experience. I got sick of the larger and smaller mouthbrooders. I like the challenge of keeping the clarets and they are such stunning fish when they colour up. As your photos show evidence of.

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Welcome to the forum! We don't get many members outside of Australia here... Just a note: those edges on the terracotta pot look pretty sharp...I had an incident where I didn't sand down the edges and my male imbellis got a pretty awful cut on his body...so make sure the edges are sanded down before using. Oh and very nice fish you have there!

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