VT x HM

[bettasbest 0]

Hello All,

I was just wondering what sort of spawn i would get crossing a VT with a HM and does the gender of each type effect the spawn?

Eg. VTf x HMm & VTm x HMf

Thanks

Julie

[Goody3714 0]

Hey julie

vt is dominate and wld prob end up with mostly vt's i think

here a little bit of info on the dominate/recessive traits

Dominant:

Red

Longfin

Singletail

Recessive:

Yellows

Orange

Melano

Black Lace

Shortfin/plakat

Doubletail*

Intermediary/partial Dominant:

Metallic

Dragon

The 3 irids - Turquoise & Steel, which when combined produce Royal Blue

Crowntail

*Doubletail, which often results in broad dorsals in heterozygous fish

Complex traits like Halfmoon result from multiple genes working together.

Dominant traits require the fish to carry at least 1 copy of that version of the gene.

i copyed this of some were in the gentetics tread ages ago cant remember witch tread so i just pasted what i copyed here

hope it helps

Edited May 8, 2010 by Goody

[Yanagi 0]

Long fins are dominant over short fins, I don't believe Veiltail is a dominant nor recessive trait, it's just the ray branching is lessened in a HM/VT breeding because the VT has no branching to contribute. If that makes sense. I may be wrong about that.

But I'd say you'll get mostly Delta and some VTs.

[bettasbest 0]

Thanks alot Goody i for all the info on recessive/dominant genes. I was thinking that if i bred the spawn from my VT's with a HM then perhaps i would end up with a VT with a heavy caudel fin but i guess that isnt the case - oh well

I hopefully will soon be getting a black lace male - what exactly does the term "black lace" mean? he is a HM male Black/Copper Rosetail - from my knowledge - maybe there is something i am missing?

Thanks Yan for your advice too

Could you please explain a little of "branching" and "Delta" terms mean?

Julie

[Yanagi 0]

These article explain branching, finnage, etc far better than I could on my best day.

Branching

Tail Types Guide

Female Tail Types Guide

tl;dr

Delta is basically a kind of cull, not a lot of use for breeding unless you're breeding purely for colour or something, it's easier to just buy a Halfmoon pair if that's what your heart is set on. In saying that though, Deltas are cheaper than Halfmoons and if you're just looking to do an experimental/practice spawn then go for it.

A Delta has more branching and a bigger caudal than a Veiltail but is far from a Halfmoon. Super Delta is a step above Delta, closer to Halfmoon but still not quite there yet.

Edited to add -

These two are my black laces. They are dark/black bodied fish with blue iridescence and clear fins, which is what gives them the 'lace' look (The male doesn't show it well, plus he has white tipped ventrals which I'm pretty sure is a fault).

Edited May 8, 2010 by Yan

[Chuckie 1]

thanks for the photos Yan, it's nice to see how my kids are looking!

Is that little female from the combtail spawn?

[Yanagi 0]

That female was actually the one with tumors, I had to put her down. I would of bet she was Plakat though, she was very small and young compared to the combtail I did get and never showed any signs of marbling. She also only had one ventral fin, if that would help in identifying the spawn or something.

I hope you're pleased with the way they've grown up lol The male seems to be a late bloomer, he still won't even flare at a mirror or his male neighbour.

[bettasbest 0]

Hi Yan,

Thanks for those links they were really informative and helpful!

And thanks for explaining black lace - it all seems very clear now

Julie

[Fergus 0]

I spawned a VT male to a HM 8-ray female and got mostly VTs with regular 2-ray caudals, but i did get a few round tails with 4-ray branching.

[bettasbest 0]

Hi Fergus, thats interesting - i was more thinking of the idea of VT's with huge flowing tails i guess that isnt going to be the way it will turn out lol! *lol*

[Fergus 0]

I did a spawn log on the forum if you'd like a look: http://ausaqua.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=8366

[bettasbest 0]

Thanks for sharing Fergus, really cool to see them grow

They look like Delta Tails?

[Sarah 0]

Yeah. VT are a very dominant gene.