fish died...boo, brand new fish...YAY

[paul]

Hey all, I'd entrusted the family to care for my fish while away, and I came home to find that I was short three fish. The first to go was the little CT female I had. She had spawned many times with that CT male who was TSTB. Mind you he was the third fish to go. I saw him yesterday before he died from dropsy. The other to go was the plakat male with swim bladder disorder for several months after some funky fleshy growth disease.. surprisingly long lived fish (he only died last week). It's sad I know, but there's always an upside.......

BRAND NEW FISH!

I made a trip to Auburn today to see if any of the nice fish were left over. I think I saw who I'm guessing was Yan, rush in and ask about "the dragon" while I was making my selection. (Sorry you missed out if it was you). I however selected two nice boys. A metallic superdelta, and another fish labelled a superdelta but who I reckon is half moon rosetail. He's a strange colour and looks "peach" but I'm sure I'll be corrected and told he's orange...but that's not orange and it's definitely not red even to a blokes eyes! LOL. Some pics:

The metallic has split the rays in his caudal from over vigorous flaring at the boring brown female next to him. The metallic sheen and colours through his tail are amazing! I think I'm gunna be asking around for HMmetallic females in the near future...maybe after july when I'm back in syd full time. Lisa???Anyone???

[Yanagi]

Oh gosh, you should have said hi! Yeah, I was there. My dad's tank has come down with white spot and I was picking up some BBS eggs, then had to rush off to pick up some hideous piece of furniture with my mum, I let her pay while I took a couple of seconds to eye the new selection of Betta.

I was so oogling that first boy, he is lovely! I didn't even see that second boy, he is a beauty too! I'm jealous!

Oh and sorry you lost your fish. :(

Edited April 3, 2010 by Yan

[paul]

Yeah, seeing as I've never seen/met you, it took a few seconds for my brain to put everything together and bring a0ll those little pieces in line to make me guess that it was you, then you were gone! It'd be cool to chat next time.

Hey, did you get to see the two giant betta? They're a bit docile, and a little weird looking... one was very podgy/fat in the face, and wouldn't flare when I put another betta next to him. I wonder if they aren't just giant...maybe they have specific chromosomal anomalies/or a diagnosable endocrine disease. And how would they go breeding with normal sized females?

[paul]

Might seem a silly question, but I was trying to figure out why both these boys sholud have anal fin irregularities. I noticed it before I bought them, but didn't care... now I'm wondering if it's going to be genetic... will it be passed on to any spawns I might get? It's not so obvious in the metallic, but easily seen on the 2nd boy...but I'm wondering could it have been from trauma/bitten off before the fish was jarred?

[Chuckie]

It looks like fin damage to me, not genetic.

I successfully spawned a giant PK with a (large) regular HM female once.

I think the technical name for his colour is "orange" but I agree that he is in reality apricot (or peach, if you prefer).

[Yanagi]

Hehe, sorry. If I spent another second in there mum was gonna drag me out by my ankle.

Nope, didn't see any Giants. Last time I was there they had Giants up in the tanks above the plants and Betta area, two turquoise Plakats I think? I'm too short to really see anything up there LOL

Giants have been bred with normal sized Betta and they call them King Betta, at least that's what I read on an American forum. I think they breed the Giants pretty young so they aren't too big.

I agree that it just looks like damage, not genetic.

[paul]

The metallic boy is really working out and flaring heaps... he looks great, but he's getting more splits in his tail... you can see one spilt that runs almost to the peduncle, but now hes's got a couple more in mid-lower rays that extend about 5-7mm in from the edge. The water is salted, I'm hoping this will be enough to prevent infection. Don't have IAL, so will just wait and see. These splits should heal with time right????

[Yanagi]

'Fraid I'm no use to you there, my rosetail HM boy's fins never healed even with salt and IAL. His tail hasn't fully grown back from when he chewed it in late Jan. either.. Maybe his fins are just lousy. But a split I imagine should heal up fine.

[Chuckie]

Hopefully it will fuse back together. Drop round next time you're in Sydney Paul, I have plenty of IAL on hand.

[paul]

Thanks Lisa, I might buy some from you some time.

Had to drive back to Bathurst tonight, and really didn't want to. First seeing as I've gotta work tomorrow (public holiday) and second coz I want to stick around, condition that metallic boy, and get my hands on a metallic half moon female from somewhere, so I can try my hand at a spawn with thus guy. I hadn't appreciated how amazing the metallics are until I got this guy home under the tank light. Now I get your obsession with "metal betta" Lisa. Might have to come past some time and take more than just some IAL...maybe steal a fish from you too!!!

[Chuckie]

:D

Please, help save me from my obsession!

I know what you mean.

[paul]

I might be getting a little carried away, but I'm really keen to breed the metallic boy... Of course it'll have to wait until July when back in Syd, but I was trying to figure out some of the metallic genetics. So far, I'm a bit confuzzled! I think I'm missing out on some basics... I get genetics and inheritance, but I can't figure out metallics phenotype/genotype,dominant/recessive... so a couple Q's to start.

The boy is metallic...is he steel with metallic (blbl++) or just "metallic" (????genotype) ..... is metallic and blbl++ the same thing??

Or is he copper.... or is that also the same thing???

And... can you get golds/silvers/coppers from this boy?

[Chuckie]

copper = a steel fish with 2x metallic modifier.

I haven't totally worked out the relationship between copper and gold, except that it's my understanding that :

a copper fish is a dark bodied fish with spread iridescence (ie it is genetically iridescent blue - specifically, steel - with 2x metallic modifier)

a gold betta has the cambodian (light bodied) gene, and the gene for spread iridescence, AND 2x metallic modifier.

a platinum fish has 2x the opaque (pastel) gene over a light body (ie it is a cambodian fish with ... 'extra opacity' ).

Forgive my poor utlisation of the genetic terminology. And I am assuming that opaque and metallic are slightly different, but I may be wrong about that (this is becoming a profoundly unhelpful post.... !)

I also think I understand that cambodian (light body) is recessive, so it is possible that your copper male is carrying a recessive cambodian gene, so if you paired him with a female with the same genotype (or a gold female) you would get gold bettas and either copper or teal in the offspring.

I can't remember what the genotype of 'teal' is except that I think rather than being steel + metallic (ie copper) it is royal blue + metallic. But it could be turquoise + metallic ... sorry. If I remember I will go look it up and come back. *edit: it is the royal blue equivalent of copper, ie royal blue + 2x metallic modifier

I don't know what blbl is supposed to represent.

[paul]

I was looking at these punnet squares on metallic genetics...here, and although it took a while to figure out, I was still unsure if copper and metallic were interchangeable terms. I think I've figured it out though.

I'm pretty sure that metallic just refers to fish with the metallic modifier (or a + in the squares). "makes fish shinier"

Copper refers to a double shot of the + (or metallic modifier). This then describes to both genotype AND phenotype of the fish. "more shinier"

The "bl" I used in the post was referring to the punnet squares regarding the blue genetics...

BlBl = turquoise

Blbl = royal blue

blbl = steel

Adding metallic modifiers (+)

BlBl+ = metallic turquoise

Blbl+ = metallic royal blue

blbl+ = metallic steel blue

Double dose metallic modifiers (++)

BlBl++ = metallic green

Blbl++ = teal

blbl++ = COPPER

So I guess my fish is a steel blue with x2 metallic modifier = COPPER!.... oh yeah ...just like you said Lisa...thanks

Now to research gold

[Chuckie]

blbl = steel. *noted*

Thanks paul, I have updated the blue betta genetics pinned topic with that info

[paul]

I just went trough my camera and found video I had taken while I was in Syd of the Copper boy. Pictures don't do metallics justice so I've uploaded the vid. Try and ignore the background noise. Big file... hope this works.

[Chuckie]

hey paul, what's that cool backing soundtrack you added to that one? It really enhances the footage!

It's amazing how much better metllics look when you can see them moving!

[Yanagi]

He's so pretty, looks like your tank is a beauty as well!

[paul]

The tank is just one of those fighter tanks with three glass dividers that slide in place (so 4 barracks). I picked it up at Auburn, and I'm pretty sure they've still got them in stock. Black painted pebbles and plastic plants, a little heater and a filter. I put a black backing for the pics, but the boys get focussed on flaring at their reflection and hang around the back of the tank, so I dont leave the black card there normally. I have the filter on one end with a hose that takes water from the filter and puts it into the barrack at the other end where the heater is. The water circulates from the heater end past gaps in the glass panels and goes through the filter again so that all the barracks have filtered warm water... otherwise only one chamber gets hot and the other end stays cold with a wirlpool of filtered water.

I want to get out of Bathurst so that I can try a spawn with this boy....c'mon July!

[Yanagi]

Ah, there's my problem. I usually don't look over where the tanks are. Sounds like a good set up though. How much water does it hold?

Any plans to spawn the orange boy as well? There's something I really like about him lol

[paul]

I think its about 13 Lt tank... I know too small for 4 fish, but they're all very happy and active in there.

I like the orange one too...or Mr Portokalos as my mother has name him (from "My Big Fat Greek Wedding")! I think I'll try a spawn with him at some stage, though sourcing a suitable female might be a challenge. However, if I get a copper or gold female for the other guy, and cross her with Mr Portokalos, then a half sibling spawn... could get interesting - non-red metallics, half moons, list goes on!

By the way, The copper boy...yet to be named... has multiple splits in his tail. The split previously pictured, has almost healed, but he looks more like a crown tail now. I'll be getting some IAL STAT! for him to try prevent fin rot/secondary infection.

[BettaBetta]

I have the filter on one end with a hose that takes water from the filter and puts it into the barrack at the other end where the heater is. The water circulates from the heater end past gaps in the glass panels and goes through the filter again so that all the barracks have filtered warm water... otherwise only one chamber gets hot and the other end stays cold with a wirlpool of filtered water.

Hiya Paul, any chance of some detailed & up close pics of the set up described above, I'm struggling to get it. Cheers

[Yanagi]

Shesh, seems much bigger in the video, haha.

Good luck finding a female. I know I'd be interested in fry from him.

Aw, that poor boy, I hope his fins heal up for you.

[paul]

So I got some IAL from Lisa...thanks HEAPS!!! That's now in the tank. With some clever thinking from Lisa also, I've removed the plastic plant as this may be tearing his fins. I'm a little concerned coz there are some angy looking red tips to some of the rays, but the fins don't look to be suffering from fin rot at this time, so for good measure I'll be treating with melafix too.

Bettabetta, re: set-up pics...just took some pics, but will have to drive to Bathurst now, so will post soon.

[paul]

So some pics for BettaBetta and any one else who's interested. Tank has filter at one end, it sucks up water from lower part, then pumps it out where I've attached the hose. The hose then carries water up and across to the opposite end of the tank where the heater is. The glass panels are not siliconed in so there are gaps where the water can pass around. The water continuously cycles so there is a constant temperature throughout the tank. If the water wasn't moving the section with the heater would get hot and the other end would stay cold. Hope the pics explain it enough.

Also, have a look at the copper boy's tail... any other suggestions regarding treatment (currently no plastic plant, IAL and melafix, salted...sorry no crumbs or batter )? Main issue is that I won't be able to check on his progress for two weeks