BettaBetta Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 I've been ranting that the RSPCA should push for tougher legislation about lfs & pet shops taking more onus of care when selling fish to newbies i.e. in Italy fish "bowls" are banned, in Germany there's a minimum size tank you're allowed to purchase and so it goes on. This story amazed me; now I can add the UK to a far more advanced, caring fish society than what we are here (when it comes to sales I mean) ... http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/mp...dfish-to-child/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleangel Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 totally agree with you (sales wise) anyway but the poor granny and her son.......... THATS JUST A BIT OVER THE TOP *thinks to herself* but then again if it wasnt a serious fine, everyone would be doing it. kinda the same a selling alcohol to someone underage. that it a huge fine and can have you liquor license taken away, but everyone tries to follow the rules because of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbites Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Well... from the country that has the Raving Mad Loony Party (perhaps the only honestly named political party in the world!) comes a fine for a pet shop owner selling a fish! Why are they responsible for the actions of a customer after they leave the shop? Does that mean they can also be fined if a customer buys a betta and puts it in a flower vase and kills it? And are they qualified to know the mental/social/and other abilities of everyone they sell pets to? Watch out someone - I'm quite crazy some days - don't sell me any more fish!!! LOL..... On a serious note - if you are fed up with LFS not giving correct betta advice there is a care sheet available that you can either print and give to them or put the file on a CD and give to them so they can print it.... care sheet can be downloaded from this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BettaBetta Posted April 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Giggles re someone warning! I can certainly see your point FishBites & agree. However, I do believe lfs's (especially) and pet shops need to be far more diligent & provide more info than they do. I even went to the extent of penning a missive to the RSPA today outlining (from my own experience) how many fish suffer & die at the hands of newbies who are given no info whatsoever - and it's not just Betta's that my concern relates to, it's ALL fish. I raised the topic of no info with a new lfs I found by saying, "Way back when I was a newbie 2 weeks ago" lmao, I was given no info & my fish got sick/died until I found forums, got cycling etc. He blamed me for not researching first ... a very good & valid point!!!! However, I also pointed out that when a newbie walks into a store they see a fresh, clean bubbling aquarium & simply presume it's tapwater with a couple of critters, stones & plants in it ... why would anyone, except the most analytical among us, imagine that much research was required when purchasing such a set up when they have no reason to even think there's chemical reactions going on in there? My attitude was I bought every conceivable piece of maintenace hardware the guy chose to thrust at me to keep it clean & fresh. No expense was spared, Purigen, algae magnets & scrubbers, separate siphons for each tank, nets, thermometers, heaters, 2 filters per tank (incase one died at an inopportune time) a crate load of different bottles of goop, all the best money could buy! I think banning fish bowls, setting limits on aquarium sizes & fining people is over the top but it sure shows some countries take animal ownership a lot more seriously than us. My expectations that lfs's & pet stores could/would ever lift their game is ridiculous when you think about it realistically - 16yo's who haven't got a clue and, in the case of one of my lfs, you can stand in line waiting to be served for 15 mins because it's packed no matter when I go there (daily for a fortnight) and there's no way they could get embroiled in an educational session re cycling etc! As an aside, I have spent a great deal of time & effort explaining in a very concise manner to 2 x lfs & 2 x pet stores exactly how carding works (as per someone's shop set up albeit I've not mentioned her name/store). I have outlined the benefits of carding to the fish themselves & the obvious increase in their sales quota when buyers see active, happy, flaring fish - they looked at me through apathetic eyes like I was stark raving mad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Personally I find this very disturbing.... It indicates where we are headed.....more idiots trying to control peoples lives Just because there are a few idiots in the world I don't see why we should ALL be treated as idiots One goldfish.....they worry about one goldfish...sold to a kid How many fish die in the grow-out pond How many fish die being shipped from Asia to the UK How many fish die at the wholesalers How many fish die at the shop before sale!! How many fish get sold...AS FEEDER FISH Let's get real!!! This is a very cruel hobby! Lots of fish die so you can chose from a few at the LFS If you think the LFS is the problem then you have your head up your #### Come on....we all can't be that stupid! If you worry about animal cruelty....easy....DONT KEEP FISH BUT......DONT TELL ME I CANT EITHER!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BettaBetta Posted April 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Uneducated newbies (who've not researched prior to setting up a tank & acquiring fish) SHOULD be treated like idiots & saved from themselves! Until a few weeks ago I'd never heard of chloramine!!!! Yes, it may well be a very cruel hobby, some of the practices originating in overseas fish farms are appalling & responsible for many of our ills today (as related by to me by retailers who've travelled there). However, nothing will ever convince me that it should not be legislated that any store who sells fish should have posters on display (talking about cycling, chemical processes, basic illnesses) in addition to handing over a flyer to every new aquarium/fish buyer that outlines several different links to recognised websites about basic water treatment, cycling, diseases, temperatures etc. There is absolutely no point in compounding the already vast suffering & dying through an easily rectifiable education process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreaming_frog Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 ....all the local pet stores i know have care guides for customers or are informative if you ask, but to be honest, it's up to ourselves to do the research as pet owners, you'd do the same if you got a dog, mistakes can be made but if you don't do the research.. yeah. but i do understand it's been a very upsetting time for you lately with your tanks and why you're upset about it maybe your lfs was not as good as some of the others but all the ones i know do have care sheets and also have posters on tank cycling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BettaBetta Posted April 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 you'd do the same if you got a dog Hiya dreaming_frog, I've bred & shown horses & dogs to Royal Show standard for most of my adult life. Smiles, fish are a whole different & more complex ball game and far, far more difficult to get a grip on the many different aspects imo. I won't go into specifics suffice to say that our four legged friends' temperature, environment, medical conditions, nutrition, toxins etc are far easier to feel, see, monitor, understand & act accordingly. Owning fish, you suddenly become a chemist, a vet and a heart-broken carer when it all goes ary. On the positive side, I know I'll come through this black tunnel & come out the other end being able to deal with & take things in my stride. I guess, the more we screw up, the more we learn - just a shame there's an animal involved is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 It's happened to all of us, Di. Sad fact of life . Fortunately those who don't learn from their mistakes generally aren't interested and give up, whereas the rest of us do learn, then try to educate and inform. That is actually one of the Syd Splendens Society's objectives. It's difficult to get the RSPCA to feel inspired to intervene regarding creatures we haul out of the ocean with hooks through their mouths and allow to slowly suffocate, then eat, unfortunately . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbites Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 It's all about responsibility.... if you're going to own a pet... take responsibility for it... if you're going to get / let a kid have a pet then also take responsibility for your kid and the pet.... We already have warning labels on hair dryers telling people not to use them under the shower... let the gene pool be cleansed please! Far too many today are looking for a way out of taking responsibility..... another accident on a 'killer' road (no the road did nothing - the idiot who was drunk was responsible, etc etc) As far as fish shops go - they will give advice to anyone and it's their professional duty to give accurate advice but to ensure everyone who buys something knows what they are doing is impossible - unless they triple the price to afford the extra staff this would require.... Not only buyer beware but buyer be responsible..... And if we can help the LFS to help their customers - great - things like care leaflets Lisa and I did up help - organisations such as the SSS trying to educate people is fantastic too - but fining a shop over a gold fish or legislation for pet fish - damned over the top as far as I'm concerned.... Introduce a fish keeping licence and see how the hobby and local aquariums disappear overnight.... (well apart from us addicts who can't live without our fish). Ok... off my soapbox now.... And for the record... I hate seeing any fish die - even from old age! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfstar Posted April 17, 2010 Report Share Posted April 17, 2010 As far as fish shops go - they will give advice to anyone and it's their professional duty to give accurate advice not all give correct advice, when i bought my blue combtail, i was told by the staff that they were meant to be in a teeny show tank as they live in "animal hoofprints in dried up rice paddies" and that they dont need plants, though any decent fish hobbyist knows its about the mini eco system, not just appearances. they didnt even tell me anything about how often to change the water, saying thhey lived in dirty water, so once a week would suffice! i think that if i had've know before getting him home, and having him in the pathetic ecsuse of a tank i was led to belive was right, i would have spent the whole week prior setting up the 5L filtered tank setup he has now! im hardly an authority on fish, but what i have learned lately has put me on a steep learning curve! and, i agree strongly with bettabetta, as a not so amateur, but not yet profesional dog trainer and aspire to be a registered breeder one day, the needs of fish are far greater than that of a dog, dogs are simple, like you dont have to change the air they breathe, or add chemicals to make sure it doesnt kill them, or keep a close eye on nitrates and amonia and thats only the tip of the iceberg! when you take into account water quality, filtering, diagnosing any illness, maintaining their tank, etc etc, well, i have found things become rather technical! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul Posted April 17, 2010 Report Share Posted April 17, 2010 I think the point of the article was that the fish was sold to someone legally underage, and as such considered incapable of looking after a pet... however, the vast majority of these animals are sold as children's pets. It makes no sense. In addition, I have to say, I deal with a huge spectrum of people from all walks of life, many of whom, as adults, display less common sense than teenagers... there really are lots of idiots out there. I have a problem with accepting legislation that is put in place to cover for the "lowest common denominator" as this then restricts those who actually have the intelligence, maturity and common sense to look after themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Posted April 18, 2010 Report Share Posted April 18, 2010 All I can add Paul is, well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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