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zhong89

First time spawning butterfly HM X marble HM

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This is my first time spawning therefore first time spawn log. Not quite sure how it goes or the proper names for the traits. All advice on the rearing of the fry and how to do the spawn log properly is welcome.

Father: Black and white butterfly halfmoon

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Mother: Black and white Marble halfmoon (sibling)

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Source: Nina (She has really really really really nice fishes)

Introduced chimney: 28th Dec 2009

Released: 30th December 209

Spawned: 6th Jan 2010

Hatched: 8th Jan 2010

Free swimming: 10th Jan 2010

I'm using the same tank to spawn as well as to grown out here's a picture

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There is a sponge filter on the left, i didn't seem to get it in the picture.

My free swimming babies is now four days old, I've started feeding it microworms yesterday. A little bit of vinegar eels ( i forgot to buy a dust masked and it's too hot to go outside in melbourne i'm using the aquarium cotton syringe method to harvest the little bit i can). I'm also hatching BBS as I type, should be hatch by tomorrow morning.

My free swimming babies (day 4)

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P.S i don't know why the aquarium seems so green, it doesn't look like in real life

Edited by Joan

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Looking good so far! Looks like there's plenty of fry there too. If i was to pick at anything it would only be that i would normally spawn in no more than 4"of water, but it's has obviously worked for you! Well done.

In an emergency i have emptied the tea leaves out of a tea bag and used that to strain VE, the tiny ones get through but you will get enough for a decent feed for the fry.

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Hi Joan! They look like copper marbles to me, rather than butterflies. The male would need a more defined pattern than that to be a "butterfly" (although butterfly and marble traits are related). The female has a lovely platinum/metallic sheen. Don't expect the patterns to stay the same, marbles change all the time!

There are some guidelines about the spawn logs posted somewhere but its really just intended to be a place where you can log the spawn's progress for your own records and reference and get people's feedback, of course. Well, that's what I use it for anyway. There are no hard and fast rules, so don't worry - you're not going to do anything wrong if you kust keep track of all the bits and pieces you might want to remember down the track. It's kind of like posting in a blog. maybe I will change the name to Spawn Blogs! ;)

:P

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I can attest to the marbles changing. I've got a marble pair here that I've recently bred and the male seems to almost have lost his marbling altogether. Except for a small patch of white behind his gills his body is completely steel blue, well his dragon scales are lol. Though his fins have retained their marble effect. He has white streaks and marbling through the anal, caudial and dorsal and his ventrals have little white socks.

The female has lost her marbling completely, the only evidence that she was once a marble is her dragon scaling, it's marbled to a degree...missing in some places which makes her appear marbled.

Edit: Just took some photo's of the marble boy, Buddy is his name. He was flaring and the cam was close,,hence pictures. Not great ones sadly, he doesn't like to stay still whilst flaring and I only had a table lamp for light. All taken on manual focus though. I'm quite proud of my new skill:P

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Edited by Fighters4U

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so pretty.... I wonder if any of my fry will turn out so pretty....

Anyway, i have a question how much does 8 days old fry eat? They're at least eating 5 times as they eat on day 3. I keep add microworms in and they just keep disappearing and my fry tummies keep getting bigger ( all i see is little round white dots with two little black dots as eyes). Do they know when to stop?

Also, i've found some of my fry aren't eating or not eating as much as the others. They don't have round stomachs, the stomachs almost seem empty and they keep staying on the top of the tank. I don't understand why they won't come down on the bottom to eat, coz everyone else is happily on the bottom pigging out.

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I usually feed my fry 2-3 times a day for the first 8 weeks and I vary their feeds. They might get vinegar eels in the morning with a really small amount of microworms swirled in as well, then baby brine shrimp around midday and then more vinegar eels before I go to bed. If I miss their midday feed of bbs I just give them the bbs at night instead as the vinegar eels will live in the tank up to 36hours so any that have missed out on food will still be able to find something to eat.

You've got to be careful not to over feed them as they can stuff themselves too much and have a myriad of problems from swim bladder disease to actually popping themselves. I've just had a bunch of 4 month old fry pop themselves from eating too much. In my defence it wasn't I who fed them, they were stealing food from the bristlnoses. They'd eat the bristlenose's zucchini, lettuce and cucumber between the feeds I gave them. They even eat the algae pellets I put in for the BN

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The fry at the top are probably grazing on infusoria.

I like to feed vinegar eels rather than MW until I start BBS, as it keeps the fry off the bottom where they tend to gorge themselves then lie around in "MW soup".

I feed one serve of VE the day they become free swimming, which lives in the tank for days. Then I give a second feed of VE on day 3 with the first lot of bbs in the morning (so the smaller fry still get something to eat). I then feed bbs am and pm until they start on larger foods (mosquito larvae hatched from rafts, grindal worms, FD Blackworms).

Overfeeding is IMHO the number one killer of fry. You're better to underfeed than overfeed as there will always be infusoria for them to eat, and you minimise pollution in the water.

FWIW, the best and fastest growing spawn I have had recently is the accidental F2 spawn where I went to Tasmania for a week and they were fed absolutely nothing at all! All they ate was infusoria! (although it is possible the grindal worms being fed to the male - who was still in there - had some MW infiltration).

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hey joan, thought i'd link the page of the parents of these fry as babies, etc.

http://ausaqua.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=8316

:D

*update- i think they are from this spawn, but still looking into it. Dont seem strong enough colour to be my aqua spawn as they all came out very strongly coloured, and the only other spawn ive had is red dragon, and they arent that! lol)

Edited by ninoid12

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Well done Lisa, Copper Marble Halfmoons.... nice pickup.

Update on spawn Joan?

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My babies are almost 4 weeks old (2 days to go!!!) on average they're about one cm in length. All of them actually looks like mini bettas now instead of just a round dot with tail. They're starting to show the shades they're going to be, some are mostly blacks or dark colour, but most is white. But i spotted almost a gold/yellow one today. The grandmother is a blue and yellow marble beauty so i'm hoping to have one or more of this colour.

They're still on the microworm and BBS diet, due to i accidentally killed most of my grindalworm culture by forgetting to leave the lid open!!! (who would thought a three for five dollars 3L plastic containers is air tight, talking about good quality...) I guess i'll start feeding cut up frozen bloodworms in a few days to promote growth to give it something bigger to chew on.

Nina, this pair is from your aqua spawn, i just happen to choose the two that isn't aqua to spawn with.

Here some pictures (still not showing colour yet, but still pretty)

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Please don't mind the tank floor, it's left over microworms. My snail will clean it up as soon as he get off his lazy behind and move around a little... (it's very hard to find good help these days... hehe)

Edited by Joan

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You don't put holes into your grindal worm container lids? I've got holes in mine, about the size of a 5c piece and I stuff them with filter wool to stop the mites getting in :cheer: Hope that tip helps.

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I was getting around to do that. It's just that the container is cheap (although surprisingly good quality) I thought it wouldn't be air tight and since i take off the lid constantly to inspect and sometimes feed i didn't thought it was necessary. I got busy last few days and didn't get around to them... i'll do it soon!!!

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My GW cultures are air-tight (well, pretty much - wouldn't want to fill them with water and put them upside down) but I take the lid off at least once a day. It's possible heat killed them - have you had a heatwave lately?

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No, although the heat wave couldn't of helped. But i have two more sub cultures just next to the main culture using tofu boxes with holes in the lid. They're for the exact reason in case it crashes or i accidentally killed it. They're both fine, so it has to be the air tight thing...

I found the plastic containers at bunnings when I bought the peat moss and supplies. They're for 3 for 5 dollars and they're quite big. I just gathered you get what you paid for. Most containers that price at $2 shops the lids doesn't even fit the container properly. Just my luck eh?

Just fed the babies another serve of mossie larvae, it's just amazing to see the babies swallow something that's half their size or sometimes more... and they seem to love it!!!

Edited by Joan

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My fish has ventral!!! Well at least most of them that is big enough to see has ventral, I'm so happy. They're almost five weeks old and going strong, i'm quite lucky with this spawn since it was my first one. I was expecting at least 50% die within the first 3 weeks, now I'm up to almost week 5 they're not too bad... (fingers crossed)

Is there anything i should do now to help them grow? frequency of changing water? feeding frequency? tips?

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HAPPY VENTRAL DAY!!!! :D

Personally i feed my spawns twice per day and by 5 weeks the tank is full and i do a small water change every 3 or 4 days. What are you feeding them now? By 5 weeks my guys have a variety of foods include grindals, finely chopped frozen bloodworms & mini pellets.

Congratulations! You've done the hard yards, now you get to enjoy watching them colour up and grow out their fins :blush:

Edited by Fergus

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My babies are now almost 7 weeks old. Starting to show colour, believe or not I can see some red in the fin. But that's just weird, both parents are black and white...

Here's some pics, i couldn't seem to get one with red colouration on it

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Yeah you will possible get red in there, may possible be red loss showing. Colour genetics are interesting (and confusing haha) it will also relate back to what both parents of your fish where, and what their parents where.....

my black dragon spawn threw some interesting colours - reds, blacks, opaques and a mix of all those colours (marbles). And one very strange that was a rather peraly colour

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Great work Joan, lookin like a good number of fish, and look like they're growing nicely. It doesn't seem a surprise that your babies have red colouration if you look at the link in the first page of this thread, where Nina shows her spawn that resulted in your 2 parent fish. They're black copper halfmoons and have red wash. This might/or might not be obvious as your fish develop more colour. I'm interested to see how many marbles and butterflies you get from this spawn... also, if any develop dragon scaling (Nina's fish were sold to her as dragons). Good job again. Keep us posted...looking forward to more nice pics.

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Great work Joan, lookin like a good number of fish, and look like they're growing nicely. It doesn't seem a surprise that your babies have red colouration if you look at the link in the first page of this thread, where Nina shows her spawn that resulted in your 2 parent fish. They're black copper halfmoons and have red wash. This might/or might not be obvious as your fish develop more colour. I'm interested to see how many marbles and butterflies you get from this spawn... also, if any develop dragon scaling (Nina's fish were sold to her as dragons). Good job again. Keep us posted...looking forward to more nice pics.

They parents are not from that spawn, they're from the aqua spawn and there's a few that's black and white (mostly white) and I spawn out of that pair. I know for a fact that the grandparents has no red in them too.

I was surprised at the number of fish too, I thought I had 20, 30 max but it turns out alot of them were hiding in the java moss and now they're bigger they all come out for food. But I couldn't take the credits, I had ALOT of help from people in this forum, and I think you guys had a lot of poise putting up with my endless and sometimes stupid questions.

BTW how do I introduce dry foods for them? I put it in and all they do is bite it and then spit it out, i couldn't even get one to eat it. I was told it's much easier for them if i introduce dry foods in their future homes not all of them will get live or frozen foods. Tips?

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Hey joan,

I love reading and seeing the progress of your fishies :(

Great job! I can't wait to see what colours come out from this brood

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My babies are almost 10 weeks old now and i'm preparing to jar some of the bigger males.

The colours in this spawn is unexpected, i have a few like it's parents black and white marbles with a metallic sheen. I have a few that's mostly dark (not quite black) they also have a beautiful red metallic sheen giving the fish an overall almost dark purple kind of colour. I have some that's pure white, with a platinum metallic sheen and the weirdest is I have a few that has a blueish sheen with a red wash and the body is gray/blueish in colour.

Here is a picture of the majority of the fish, i'm still just amazed at the different colours.

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They look beautiful Joan, can't wait to see them after they've been jarred for a while.

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