Billphil Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Saw for sale in a petshop locally (not a LFS) - a four inch cube box (must hold about a litre), with no filtration, aeration or heater included. Stated that Bettas will live at room temperature - well maybe until next winter in Melbourne. Stated that bettas are short lived fish but are very hardy. Arent there any regulations regarding minimal conditions for keeping of fish??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghengis Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Welcome to the frustrations of the Betta enthusiast. I imagine Betta's are, in fact, short lived...particularly when kept in less than a litre of water! I don't know how many times I have overheard conversations between pet store owners and customers where the "O, no, it's fine, they actually prefer to live in less than the average mouthful of water...it's their natural habitat" line is spruiked. To the best of my knowledge, though, no such regulations exist...you can go to jail or be fined heavily for not providing suitable accomodation for your cat, dog or horse, but apparently, keeping fish in sub-standard conditions is OK. Luckily for the fish, there are folks like us that realise the complete idiocy of this point of view... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilchard Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Well said, that about sums it all up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninoid12 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 still doesnt safe the poor fishies that DO get homed to idiots that believe it I have seen at a lps chain, a VERY small circular bowl. MUCH smaller than a litre. About a cup but round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennifersmith Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Unfortunately you see a lot of bettas kept in squalid conditions in pet shops etc. One day I walked into an 'auqarium' shop in Brisbane and all the bettas were stacked in plastic takeaway cups on top of one another. My daughter rescued one with severe fine rot and luckily I was able to, by changing his living conditions, save him. At the same shop I noticed a girl buying many of the bettas, and so I went to talk with her, a fellow betta enthusiast, I thought, only to find she was buying them for centre pieces for her wedding!! Unfortunately I lost it them with both her and the person in the shop. If these fish could scream it would be a whole different story. It is so frustrating, when we know that each of our fish have their own little personalities and that is why I am loathe to sell them to just anyone. They seem to be seen as an accessory item and not actual living creatures. Sorry for raving but am quite passionate about this particular topic - surely petshops and aquariums should be standard checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 This is a topic that has been raised many many times before......here's an alternate view Be very careful what you wish for.... Sure there are lots of shops that don't look after bettas and sell them to people who take even less care! but hey......I doubt 50% of fish sold last more than a month...regardless of the size of their tank What's the solution??? Rules for shops??? who polices the rules....who pays??? Rules for who has the capability to look after a pet properly???....licenced fish keepers??? A Licence that nominates species that can be kept....special licence to breed???? More people working for "the government" In my opinion....There are far far too many rules in my life already.....rules invented for dumb people....so we all end up being treated like dummies Fish are breed in their millions to be sold to be used as ornaments.....very very few ever get to reproduce....let alone live to their potential I don't want any more rules.....I look after my fish....I only buy pairs and I try to breed every fish I buy.....at the other end of the scale..... Lots of people buy small contains and fill them with coloured gravel a plastic plant and a undernourished fighter with clamped fins....that is a pretty blue colour If it dies a premature death....that's tough....but I prefer that ....than a book of rules for dummies that infringes on my freedom Take this argument to It's logical conclusion and the "do gooders" of the world would ban owning ANY pet! ps....I keep some of my "wild type" bettas in 1 litre glass boxes.....some have even breed in these Betta uberis breeding in a 1 litre glass box....a 4 inch cube!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyrical Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 if l'm in a shop and hear a store employee sprout wha tl know tobe tripe ..l step in and correct them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billphil Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Interesting that in many other countries, there are regulations regarding size of tanks and people have to undertake quite a rigorous course on fish husbandry before they are licensed to operate such a business. Not in Australia though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 What countries have these regulations?? Do they have any regulations for feeder fish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbygodz Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 100% with you MelbBill, seeing fish in tiny jars / birds in tiny cages / dogs in tiny enclosures makes me sick! I can't help but feel anger & contempt toward the numb brained that believes they are "looking after" the poor animal being kept in these pathetic conditions. Label me a "do gooder",whatever - if the cap fits I'll wear it with pride. Education (or lack of it) is the key here. This is not a call for regulation, just common sense. -Brad :scold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyarlla Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 I am totally with you on that point Brad! Just today I opened a "Aquariums and Tropical Fish for the More Advanced Enthusiast" book to find it said that you really only need to keep a betta in a handful of water and maybe do a 1/3 weekly water change but that betta will live in dirty water anyway. Oh and their live span is less than two years... So how come I now have 2 betta who are now over 3 years old and looking brilliant and still ready to breed??? Grrrrrr!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbygodz Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Congrats on the three year olds Lyarlla. Wish the author had consulted you before he wrote that rubbish.......... -Brad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryFishLover Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 My wife came across a seller on ebay whom is selling a wine glass suitable for keeping a betta in. Daughter wanted it, we said no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marianne Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 If it dies a premature death....that's tough....but I prefer that ....than a book of rules for dummies that infringes on my freedom You'd rather fish continue to be mistreated and die within weeks in tiny bowls because if they make rules against it it would infringe on your freedom to mistreat fish? How would it even affect you if they included fish in animal welfare laws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 Just a reminder: Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I appreciate that you may feel passionate about a subject. That does NOT permit or justify personal attacks. Please refer to the Board Rules: http://ausaqua.net/forum/index.php?act=boardrules Specifically: Offensive content must not be posted **Freedom of speech rights do not extend to privately owned websites, such as this one**. and Flaming of other members is not permitted From time to time, discussions may grow heated. This is to be expected, and reasoned, passionate debates are fine. However, you are required to respect your fellow members and you must not engage in personal insults and attacks. The Australian fish community is a small one and we cannot afford factions, alienation and in-fighting. Many of us saw what this did to the betta community a few years ago and a zero tolerance approach shall be taken to this sort of behaviour to prevent anything like that happening again. This Rule requires you to refrain from inflammatory/provocative comments, flaming, taunting and general disrespect. Uninvited remarks about typos, duplicate posts, or members etc should not be made unless you are familiar enough with the member involved to know it will be taken in good humour. If something is written on this forum which you find offensive, before launching into a public condemnation, please consider that the person may not have intended to cause offence. It is very easy to misinterpret a post on forums. There is absolutely no need to resort to insults. There is a Report Post function that allows you to bring the content you have issues with to the attention of the AusAqua Team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 I'm realistic enough to understand I can't control what others do....I can only control what I do Many well meaning hobbyists get upset about bettas kept in small containers....fair enough....do something about it!! Make suggestions....provide details/"a flyer" to offending shops that direct New owners to this site??? If you think whinging to the converted on this forum gets you brownie points....that's ok....I don't believe it achieves anything Saying it's terrible and patting each other on the back does nothing I see there is a lot more to fish well fare than the size of their tank.....appropriate water chemistry,frequency of water changes,keeping them warm,plants in the tank,snails to clean up uneaten food,live food.....giving them an opportunity to BREED! No use having them in a big tank if you don't take care of the rest....hey that's just my opinion But Honestly....whether we like it or not fish are a disposable commodity....If you prosecute everyone who mistreats fish/or pets in general....most would be paying a fine....particularly if I wrote the rules!!! Lets bring in animal welfare laws for fish....all fish! Crikey! Why is a mungrel poorly breed betta better than a native firetail gudgeon!!! gudgeons are sold by the thousand as feeder fish!!! What could be more cruel! If fish/pets were only sold to those capable and prepared to look after them(on my terms) there wouldn't be a industry.....but I'm honest enough to admitt I turn a blind eye...are you? I worry about the environment....destruction of wild betta habitat....that's irreplaceable. I'm not intending to upset anyone....just express an honest opinion.....that may not be the popularist view! Hi Lilli.......I don't mind if you judge my statements as not confirming with your rules....your call! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Like I said before, reasoned debate is fine. Calling people, say, "incredibly selfish" and engaging in other forms of personal attack is not. Your post is ok Rod. I class it as reasoned debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 I know it wasn't your intention Lilli....however....if we are truely honest it is "incredible selfish" for humans to keep any animal,bird,fish or reptile in captivity....for personal enjoyment I know it's wrong....but I do it anyway!....I don't suggest doing it well makes it ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terribletegs Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 IMO, I don't think it is necessarily cruel to keep bettas in containers of less than a litre. Expecting every single betta in the world to have his own 2' tank is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Almost all my juveniles were jarred for months in 800ml takeaway containers. Those who bought them don't seem to have observed any poor physical state due to the confining quarters they were in The problem is that uninformed people who are disinterested in learning take at face value that something that wees and poos can live in 600ml of water/wee/poo ... until it can't, any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergus Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 IMO a well cared for betta in a smallish container (say 800ml like Lisa's or my juvvies) is much better off than betta in a 2ft tank that never has water changes and is never cared for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will7 Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 But just because someone wants to keep their betta in a 5 litre tank as opposed to a 800ml tank doesn't mean they look after them any less! I know bettas are kept in tiny containers for the beginning of their life, that is how they are bred, and for space reasons, that is practical, but I would hate to see one of my boys kept in less than a litre of water for their whole lives (while I sit here and watch my boys energetically roam their homes!) Rod, I am hearing you. I went to my main LFS with the expectation that I would be able to fix their betta care sheet in a heart beat(and my knowledge is minimal) but actually their betta care sheet(I was impressed they had one) was not too bad, UNTIL...at the end it said these fish are also extremely easy to breed!!!!!! Yeah, might be easy to get them to produce babies, but caring for them properly and keeping them alive, is another thing! Uggghhh, to me that was not good! And no, a mongrel bred betta is no less than a $1000 arowana to me, and probably to most of us. They all deserve the best of care that we can provide. Of course it's an industry, it thrives on a fishy death turn over for the less informed! And that's where the market is at, unfortunately. As I said once before in reply to this thread on another forum, fish aren't decorations, they are living things, which if we take them into our care, we should provide them with the best possible environment we can... All I am trying to say, is that whatever the fish, or pet for that matter should be well researched, and cared for in the best conditions. We owe it to them, and they deserve it, they are not just decorations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Yeah, might be easy to get them to produce babies Really? What's your secret, LOL! Many of us have tried everything, including spawning by the moon, to get these blighters more willing to co-operate and produce us some babies BTW, if anyone wants to use the betta fact sheet and care guide on the home page (ausaqua.net) go for it. Sydney Splendens also has it in PDF which I can email to you if you'd like some to put out at your LFS. We also have the tail types guide in PDF form if you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 MelbBill started this thread with a valid comment regarding how some pet shops house and sell bettas They are a hardy fish and as such do get abused.....but so do lots of Goldfish and other fish The poor presentation in shops in small containers does give the wrong impression to a novice that they can be happily kept in a cup of water with minimum maintenance We all know that's not true....if you are providing proper care I hope any novice who reads this thread gives their betta the best care.....a bigger tank is great....just don't ignore the other needs... a small tank will work....but only with more maintenance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishchick Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 while your intentions are well meaning - every time you "rescue" a fish you reward the shop for keeping it that way! Why would they change their practices when people still keep buying the fish? Education is the only answer. Ask the store if they have a care sheet to offer to customers. If not, would thy like you to provide one - no charge? Give them 20+ copies. Cheers, someone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.