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Giant betta genetics

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Thanks for the link Lisa. Jim's giant spawn are beautiful. I had thought 7" betta were merely legend. Had to get my ruler out to grasp the physics of such a huge betta.

Check out his fishroom.....WOW! http://www.bcbetta.com/fishroom.html

Cheers! - Brad.

Edited by Brad

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You didn't mean to say that that's Jim Sonnier's fishroom, did you? BC Betta is Marianne Lewis, a once prolific Canadian breeder, but now sadly not breeding. Hopefully she'll come back to it at some point. And yes that is one heck of a fishroom. It would need to be. With that many fish simply feeding them would take a fair while.

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I was doing some research during my lunchbreak and found this info on http://www.bluebettausa.com

Might help someone to determine how long to get full size giants back when outcrossing to normal sized bettas. It's one topic I intend to bookmark...

Giant gene information for breeding

Giant 25% breed with Giant 25% will produce the maximum sized Giant 50% in (F1)

Giant 50% breed with Giant 50% will produce the maximum sized Giant 75% in (F2)

Giant 75% breed with Giant 75% will produce the maximum sized Giant 100% in (F3)

Giant 25% breed with Giant 75% will produce maximum sized Giant 100% of the time

Giant 100% means the body is about 3.5" long

Giant 87.5% means the body is about 3" long

Giant 75% means the body is about 2.75" long

Giant 50% means the body is about 2.45" long

Giant 25% means the body is about 2.3" long

(This data represents maturity and is approximate)

Are there any giants out there these days that reach more than 3.5" -4" ? Those 7" giants would have been amazing to see in person.

Scanned article on the first giants from Flare! Issue: Sept/Oct 2002

http://www.bluebettausa.com/ugt.htm

Does anyone know if the giant gene has been set since the above 2002 article. The article mentioned that a Giant x Giant spawn will only produce 10 - 30% with the rest being normal sized Giant geno...

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Just wanted to revive this thread a little...

I've got my "Champion of the universe" (Best in show VB Sept 5th 2011) Giant OHM PK (Marble Dragon White/Black/Copper)

Unfortunately his sibling partner was never quite right, and has since left for the big tank in the sky

So I'm looking to cross him with one of my copper females (Standard)

He's easily 8.5 cm, and would be 9-11 months old. (tip to tail) - according to Shadoh's quote there - he's either 100% or 87.5% Giant

She's not little, around 5.5 cm (Standard - tip to tail)

Would there be any issue with them wrapping?

This is unless I wait for a real giant female to come along - I'm just being fussy about colour genetics also.

I wanted to re-iterate what "Giant" means

Giant 100% means the body is about 3.5" long - 8.9cm

Giant 87.5% means the body is about 3" long - 7.6cm

Giant 75% means the body is about 2.75" long - 7cm

Giant 50% means the body is about 2.45" long - 6.2cm

Giant 25% means the body is about 2.3" long - 5.8cm

Lots of fish out there labeled as "Giant" that really are standard I'd be sure to ask anyone you're buying "Giants" from for a measurement before buying (:

-Ness

Edited by melbournebetta

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It really shouldn't be a problem Ness... It's when it's the other way around with a giant female and normal sized male where you have problems.

Have a chat to Drajit82, he has a giant/non giant spawn at the moment - http://ausaqua.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=12542 He reported no difficulty in the giant male wrapping a standard female.

Best of luck :) I hope to one day get a giant spawn underway :D

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I think shadoh has covered the basics there for you ness.

So, any idea where these rumours of 7inch giant bettas fits in to all of this genetically? Separate genetics, same genetics, complete bollocks?

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Well...............

That I don't know about, what I've had more experience with are the giant longfinned halfmoons - When I was over the seas and far away, most of my quizzing was about the Giants, I figured if anyone had worked out how to make BIG splendens it would have been the thais (imagine the Aquabid starting price they'd have on a bonafied handful of big frilly fish) but they quickly disuaded me from persuing any of the breeders that were known for them.

a.) they don't breed true (as per jarrod's explanation above)

b.) the mutations they come hand and hand with aren't worth the tiny percentage of big fish you might get from the spawn (missing fins, fused fins, scales over the eyes and mouth deformities)

c.) The will never reach HM, all are deltas, and often can't sustain the weight of any substantial tail anyway.

I saw a few on display at Chatuchuk and they were pretty mong-tastic.

So I went back to the giant PK's and standard HMS.

My Giant, Sanchez, has grown quite a bit, he's now around 8-8.5 cm, I think he's about a year old now.... he could be full-blood, or 87%

In all honesty, it's more likely a typo of 7cm/inches than there actually being a 7 inch / 17.8cm betta

I could staple some lace to a big pond Koi if you like?

x

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Hey Ness do you find your fellow to be realy laid back and unfazed by anything? as I am wondering if mine is normal. Every artical I read says they are difficult to breed but no one says in which way I have sent E-Mails to a few Thai breeders to find out more and will be reaching out to the Indonesian Brothers to find out if they have any hints.

When you spoke with the Thie breeders where the defects present in all forms of Giant or was it only in the HMs that it made its self shown?

Most Breeding programs are a % game so not getting all Giant in a spawn shouldnt be to much of a deterant in fact it makes it a chalange

Cheers

Les

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Hey Les,

I've not had much to do with spawning my giants, as this was my first pair, and the female is gone now...

I'll let you know what observations I make with any differences if/when they come up.

My guy is full of fire, he'll flare at me coming to feed him, he flares at his reflection - feisty as my Plakat, only bigger.

Those defects were results of trying to breed up the long finned HM - thats what i was interested in, but I left with PK giants instead, and didn't ask as many questions about those,

I figured you'd know.

:P

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I just got a reply back from Surat and he breeds his at 4.5 to 10 months old he is a pro breeder from Thialand and recons this is the prime time for them he allways has a lot on AB

Cheers

les

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Interesting fact to know when my fry are about that age, especially if i want to line breed or cross bred with another giant to get the desired traits I am looking for. Thanks for sharing les.

My fry are now 4 weeks old now. They are nearly as big as my first spawn. They are like 2 weeks apart I think. I can see some of the fry are much bigger in volume than its siblings. Will take a snap shot once my assignments for uni are completed.

Can't wait for my babies to grow up and me building my own barracks to station the boys in to show off to the girls.

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Hey Dragit

I just put some more info in the genral discusions section under Breeding Giants as Surat just E-Mailed me with more info so that might be worth a read

Cheers

Les

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Hi Ness i noticed your master fish of the universe is measured "tip to tail" is that end of the tail or only body size?

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Sanchez (aka champion of the universe) is measured 8.5 from his big pouty moustache to the end of his tail (not the base)

somewhere I remember someone citing overall BODY Size of a full giant to be 7.5 ... is that right?

I guess when your buying giants this is a good chart to refer to, and never be shy to ask a seller to measure his or her "giants" as the ruler never lies! mwahahahah

x

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The measurement chart refers to body size as well if what jodi says is the correctest info then it would make sense a 7.5 cm bodied full giant would be in tottal 8.9cm ish I wonder if the chart is supposed to be full length or if really there is 8.9cm body giants (wow huge!)

Giant 100% means the body is about 3.5" long - 8.9cm

Giant 87.5% means the body is about 3" long - 7.6cm

Giant 75% means the body is about 2.75" long - 7cm

Giant 50% means the body is about 2.45" long - 6.2cm

Giant 25% means the body is about 2.3" long - 5.8cm

I wish i had taken a tape measure to this guy i remember him being Very big and now i wish id known just how big!

Edited by Neffy

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Funny!

Well I guess that puts plenty of the "giants" that are out there at the moment into perspective.

Although I have to say the giant breeder I visited in Thailand didn't exactly have monstrous sized fish either.... Sanchez was about as big as it got (he was one of the breeders that I nabbed)

I'll get a ruler out next time he's in front of the camera.

Food for thought when buying fish site unseen!

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His Name is Surat and he is extreemly helpfull with any questions about Giants i have lernt a lot from him

Cheers

Les

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Just want to add my own notes on this as well.

Because I have used a Giant male and standard female as my current spawn, I have noticed that all of my females are much bigger in size compared to my males. Just on this observation, I think it is important that when you breed giant you should use both giants genes especially when you are only interested in your male. I think that my male are smaller compared to the females because the mum may well possible pass on her normal betta gene to them and the Dad pass his Giant gene to the female. So, this makes the female the carrier of the Giant gene.

If the females were to cross with Dad or another giant male, the possibility of 80 percent of the offspring will be either Half Giants/close to giant size. I had yet to prove this theory as my females are still too young to breed.

I had tried jarring the males all but one as a trial to see if he is interested in flaring. It seemed that he is not interested. So, from this observation, I think I will grow my spawn another 2 months to see if that improve or the male still seem uninterested in flaring. Both male and female do take a while to color up too. This is also a reason of the longer delay in betta growth.

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