marc Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 been dying to get pics of this one posted This is another Betta I got from the LFS .It was labeled Imbellis. I think its more of a hybrid.. ? any thoughts ..thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishy Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 OMG.. he's got the dragon look on a wild base... WOW! (or maybe it was the flash) :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callatya Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Well and truly a hybrid. It doesn't even look like imbellis body type, its too chunky up the front end. Looks like it has been crossed with a HM or rosetail. Tis a nice find. Are you going to breed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 definitely contains rosetail, rather extreme rosetail too. So extreme that he in fact may be a HM, but with the short fins that extreme rosetails get. More likely that heis a pk rosetail x though. I wouldn't breed him, personally, but he would make a nice ornament :dontknow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc Posted September 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 ive grown awfully fond of him and he is very sociable .I have bred with him already but he is definately the worlds worst dad ..He gets to interested and has to sticky beak at everything that i do in the fish room and of course short attention span he fogets to pick up his eggs .. never even thinks of it .. they all wasted at the bottom of the tank.. Are PK that lively and interesting with there behavior ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJ Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 G'day Mark, That shot with the flash shows up the fin rays and scales really well. I'm kicking myself for not having a better look when I was over there. I didn't notice how much branching he had! The other thing that stands out is the irregular scales - classic symptom of strong rosetail. Looks like there could be some wild in the colouring and the anal fin though. If you're really keen to breed him (for learning purposes if nothing else) I've got a couple of females I reckon would probably tend a nest if you removed the male before spawning finished. I'm happy to loan/give you one if you want to give it a shot. I know everyone's against the use of extreme rosetails for breeding but if he was outcrossed to a non-rosetail surely the fry wouldn't be extreme forms... Anyway, I'd be keen to see how rosetail genetics works , sorry guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 I don't mind! We all balked at the idea of spawning ventralless fry about 2 years ago, and at the idea of a DTxDT cross about a year ago, and several of us have done both types of spawns now with no ill effects. We won't learn if all we do is speculate about possible bad outcomes. I'd be interested to see if it is possible to "dilute" the rosetail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celeste84 Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 maybe if you crossed him with a SD/delta?? crossing to a HM would produce a lot of rosetail i think, possibly all rosetail X, but with a SD cross you may find a happy medium and get HMs :cheer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Rosetail CAN be bred away from. Just select the non-rosetail fry to continue with. Breed him to a female with no more than 4ray branching, and cull any fry that become HM before 2 months old.(with lots of ray branching, 180 spread and bad scalation) That should work to 'dilute' the RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 I may have mentioned this elsewhere but I believe that it may have been a PM so I'll post again. Perhaps what we know as "rosetail" is actually a bundle of characteristics that may be linked or may not. Such as people with red hair often have freckles, but some redheads have no freckles, and some people without red hair have freckles. So maybe the bad scalation isn't a degree of rosetail, it is just a gene that tends to appear in the same fish as those that have excessive branching, or is possibly linked with it? Or perhaps the bad scalation can only appear with the branching but the branching can exist with or without the scalation. If that is correct, theoretically it would be possible to breed a fish with the branching but not the bad scalation from an extreme rosetail, but probably just with a small proportion of the fry. If this is correct, whether you crossed with a HM without any characteristics of rosetail or a delta would make no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callatya Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 You know, i'd never thought of that. That is a very good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Yes, Rosetail is a combination of genes, since it is derived from HM. The bad scalation and the excessive branching can exist seperately. I've seen it. But more often than not both are on the same fish. A fish with bad scalation that is from rosetail/hm stock is what I would call an X factor fish, and I would never breed from one. It doesnt have to have excessive branching, but if it does it does it is usually overboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celeste84 Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 so X factor fish are really fish with the combined "fault" genes? i personally love rosetails, and i think a fish with a full rosetail (dorsal, caudal and anal) would look good if you could avoid the bad scales. There is another thing to consider with RTs. fish with heavy rosetail and long fins may not be able to swim properly or live as comfortably as they should. i think this isn't in the best interests of the fishies, and would be more inclined to breed to reduce the RT effect with such a heavily finned fish as your PK boy IF you breed him to a long finned female :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJ Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Mark's fish doesn't appear to be suffering in the slightest . Fair point about long finned forms though . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callatya Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 no, it looks fine I would go with a chunkier female as well as 4 ray just to try to get rid of that super-skinny rosetail characteristic :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celeste84 Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 *nods* yeah my point was for futher generations, not that actual pretty boy LOL cal, i've never noticed that rosetails tend to be skinny? they've always seemed to have the same body form as a normal male would?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAbetta Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Whats a rosetail? Could someone show an example of one? Perhaps also one with poor scaliation as well. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 There's an article on joep's webiste about rosetail Clinton, see if you can find it (sorry, I don't have time to link to it right now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splendidbetta Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 try Bettysplendens.com and go to articles or genetics study. :notsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbies Betta Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 here's the link to Joeps site about Rosetails http://vanriel.myadsl.nl/BT-AABRosetails.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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