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ineke

Dumbo spawn attempt 1

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17/04/15

2 weeks old today and still not looking like I'm having any losses. I siphoned a bit extra out today as I'm just a bit worried about the salinity levels with adding so much BBS. I've tried straining them so I don't get the water but not having much luck with that idea. Now I'm adding the BBS to tank water to dilute the salinity before it goes in but actually the same amount of salt still goes in. It's obviously not affecting the fry as they are progressing at a great rate.

I measured today and some are as small as 0.4cm and some 0.8cm maybe a tad bigger. There are far more of the larger ones than the smaller.

The pectoral growth on some is very noticable so that remains an interesting development. They are all still pink - no noticable difference in the shade of pink yet.

I will leave them in the 20" tank for a little longer as there is still plenty of room and I'm keeping up my water changes but I think I will start aging some water in the 30" tank and transfer them mid week. I will just fill the tank to about the 20cm level so they don't suddenly get overwhelmed by very deep water. It won't be as deep as what they are in now but as it is a much bigger tank they will have at least double the water they have at the moment and they will need to work harder to get a feed- I will continue to squirt the BBS near to the fry so they will see them before the BBS swim away. I've reached the top of the 20" tank tank now and they are using all levels.

If I'm missing anything at this time please feel free to tell me -or if I say I'm going to do something that perhaps is not a good idea I welcome constructive critiscm -it's the only way to learn !

I will also need some help to know what to look for in the culling area. As I mentioned I can't see any bent spines or missing bits but they are still small. I will keep an eye out for asymetric fins as I know that can be a problem breeding dumbo to dumbo -is that a reason to cull? If they are managing to swim and eat they would be good as pets but is it something that shouldn't be allowed to be in the gene pool? Even when giving away cull pets there is no gaurantee that people won't use them to breed with so should they be culled rather than given away? It's such a difficult subject to deal with but I guess it is something we must deal with.

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Sounding good. :)

Culling - I only use this word when I have to end the fishes life. :( I did 2 today (they are 13wks old) as they had shorter bodys & just didn't look/act right. I probably could of onsold them but prefer them not to be sold to someone who may breed them. Just my choice.

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Thanks Jaylee- I think that it is best to not let the deformed babies be sold on either. The Gene pool with Australian bred Bettas is not that huge so we really only want the best .

i have the same issue when selecting my shrimp but luckily don't have a big problem with them usually poor colour rather than deformities- 1 type that can take extreme temperatures go outside into a pond to live out their days -and I have a tank of culls that just all mix together for the ones that need more stable conditions. The ones in the pond still breed so must be reasonably happy.

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21/4/15

18 days today. I have moved them into the bigger tank today. Oh my there are so many of them it is scaring me. They are a very good size .

I have sponge filters and an air stone in with them -hope there isn't too much tubulance for them but there is a quiet area in the tank that they can rest in and plants to hide in. I'm thinking perhaps I should take out the airstone that seems to be agitating the waer the most.

If they continue to thrive as they are - still no losses- then I'm going to have a serious problem with having so many fish. I know I might still lose them but it is a worry to see so many. I thought I would be over joyed but not sure how I feel just now :dontknow: It is a bit overwhelming I'm afraid.

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Totally understand. I had over 200 in a spawn last year :o and thought OMG. Had an outbreak & lost 1/2 of them. Ended up with 60 which was more than enough.

Can you split them? Or cull some now. I'd do the smaller ones.

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I could cull the smaller ones. I guess it might be easier now rather than later? I understand it's early days and I could easily lose the lot but the worry of what to do with so many is a problem. I might look at taking out any that are not showing pectoral development so therefore possibly not Dumbo. It's just a bit hard for me to justify culling healthy babies but it would be much harder to cull healthy adults. I will give it a bit of thought. With a bit of luck the move to the new tank may take a toll on a few. :)

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No ill effects from the big move to the bigger tank. Witnessed "play" fighting amongst a few of them today such time wasters :)

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23/4/15

20 days old today and continuing to grow very quickly -amazingly quickly. They have adapted to the larger tank very well and are much more spread out now. Still no deaths , pectoral fins in some continue to grow quite well.

I put a square of freeze dried black worms in the tank- squashed it against the glass and it's lovely to watch the way they are inquisitive about new things in the tank. Like a group of children egging each other on to have a look and touch it and then run away and come back again. Now that it's soft you can see them tearing bits off - I don't know if they are eating it but it looks like they are -it's keeping them busy at any rate.

I'm over being overwhelmed- :) hubby doesn't mind if I have to set up yet another tank for them as they grow. I willl just have to take it a day at a time and deal with the boys if and when they become a problem. Time to take some pictures for tomorrows post and try to get a general measurement of them, -I counted close to 200 yesterday then gave up as they started mingling too much. It will be interesting to see what colour they start to show over the next few weeks -at the moment they are all pink with a few starting to turn a slightly duskier pink. :wub:

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The freeze dried worms were a great success today. As they softened more of the fry attacked them and they seemed to be eating it. I will put a piece up each day now for them to snack on. On a side note I noticed one of the bigger fry seemed to have a bit of trouble swimming properly - looks a bit like swim bladder problem. I had thought I saw one with it the other day but couldn't find it when I was searching. It can't be from the worms as they only started on them today. They have only had VE and BBS plus a pinch of very fine fry food started this week. Will see what develops - if I find the little guy again I will isolate it in a container in the tank to see if it resolves otherwise it might be my first cull.

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24/4/15

21 today -days that is! Fry are doing extremely well- feasting happily on the freeze dried worms. They are still getting a few VE and 3 feeds of BBS but the worms are a favourite. I will start giving a bit of grated beefheart too just prior to water change to be safe. The average sizes are between 0.5cm and 1 cm .I went a bit snap happy today so will add a few pictures later. I can't find my little swim bladder guy so it has rectified itself or it is hiding. I did a big water change and didn't find any bodies so it's still in there but with so many fry it could easily be hidden in the crowd. :sad:


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Yes they are a bit big. Not a show specimen I guess but when in full show he looks impressive. I initially bought him because I wanted to breed a very full finned type as I hadn't seen any for sale thought I would make my own but now I'm not so sure. When I first got him - he was an import although I didn't import him I bought him here at an auction- he couldn't swim for very long he always rested on the bottom of the tank - I thought there was something wrong with him - but I guess he had been kept in tiny bottles before he got here. Anyway he is in a 30 cm planted cube and now swims strongly , no more resting on the floor I think he just didn't have the muscles to be able to swim for long. I've seen a lot of the type I wanted now so don't need to breed one if I really still want one.

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The enlarged pectorals standard is still new in the IBC. Breeders can still have a lot of influence on what the standard should be. And we need a lot more people working on the form so that there is discussion on what the ideal should be.

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Unfortunately being a beginner I jumped in and bred fish before looking into what the standards are. If I were to attempt another spawn I would set some specific goals and aim for that. Typical beginner just wanting to see if I could get a pair to spawn :blush:

I also didn't realise that the pectorals seem to continue to grow? He had much smaller fins when I first got him

mydumbos_zpswri99e5d.jpg

they dont look as big here, definately a smaller proportion of fin to body than now I think, but they have grown a lot.

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That's fascinating that they kept growing. I don't think there's anything wrong with diving in and giving it a go. We can learn so much from the experiments. My first spawn was a red/blue veiltail male to a royal blue female. Well sort of. Their colours were very mixed. I got all 3 irid colours and so much red wash some of them were nearly bicolour. I still remember that spawn fondly.

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27/4/15

24 days today. Fry are eating freshly hatched BBS, ocean nutrition BBS, grated frozen beef heart, grated frozen brine shrimp, freeze dried black worms, chopped live black worms and a bit of dry pellets, there are live plants in the tank for them to pick at if they want. They are starting to show colour under normal light now as opposed to what the camera flash showed up. Some nice yellows, a few bluish and some red or salamander like dad. Pectoral fins on some are very pronounced. Top fin shape different on many of them. More play fighting noticed in the bigger fry, several seem to go after any that come too close so I guess they may be the ones to separate in a few weeks if they continue but at present seems more bluff than menace. 

Still no more deaths so things are going well but it's still early days and there are still a lot of fry . They are in 100 litre tank filled about 70% at the moment , the tank is a very deep one and I was reluctant to fill it to the top but they are swimming at all levels so seem to cope well with deep water. I have 3 sponge filters running in the tank with a slow to moderate air flow which doesn't worry them. Infact they spend a lot of time picking at the sponge. I think the fact that there are floating plants to break the bubbles and give quiet areas in the tank helps. 

There is a noticeable size difference between the largest and the smallest  now. There is enough food for the small ones to have a chance to feed so I doubt it's a food shortage and I know it's normal to have size difference but it is a big difference.

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1/5/15

wEEK 4 can't believe they are 4 weeks today -! death today but pretty sure that it was a little one that got sucked up the hose when I was siphoning yesterday -it didn't look too bright when I put it back into the tank so hopefully that was the one. Just for good measure I tested the water and although the Nitrates are a bit high  at 40 I think that was more to do with the beef heart they had for lunch and the tank was due for a water change. Ammonia and Nitrites 0  ph 7.5- I have stopped using a mix of RO and tap water as I couldn't make enough RO water to keep up with the water changes so gradually changed to treated tap water. They coped OK with the higher ph as it was done slowly over a week.  Here are todays pictures -size difference is growing there are a few whoppers at 2cm and a few tiny ones at 0.6 cm.

They are all munching on chopped up live black worms yumm

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week4c_zpsvxekxvxh.jpg

week4b_zpsrq0gules.jpg

week4a_zps2lrn8y96.jpg

week4_zps5hndv7h9.jpg

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3/5/15

several heart stopping moments over the last couple of days. Found a baby on its side in my floating plant so went to net it out and it shot off into the water! It was almost high and dry and I was so sure it was dead. It has now happened quite a few times with one even upside down on a leaf. I know the adults like to rest on plants and hammocks but seeing babies on their sides and backs was a surprise. Anyway they seem no worse for wear. One fry however had a large piece of freeze dried worm in its mouth and really looked dead, I picked it out and out of interest I pulled the worm out of its mouth and Lo and behold the baby started wiggling so back into the tank it went. I know there is a risk with feeding live worms but didn't think the freeze dried would cause a problem. 

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I guess anything too big could be a problem. I think sometimes they swallow the wrong way and it gets caught near the gills. 

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Pretty sure this spawn is ALL OVER FACEBOOK.
They look wonderful and they've travelled far (4? states).
Remember to keep a few aside for yourself or for the show in September!!
Would love to see some Aussie bred enlarged pectorals with nice form and colour :)

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