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Darther

OOps they spawned!

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Sire;

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LFS Purchase

Dam;

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LFS Purchase

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1st spawn. Only had Bettas since November. I'm not exactly sure what they are. I'm guessing he is a Bi color combtail? Couldn't guess her description. Can anyone help?

They were in a planted tank on their own. Woke in the morning to find a nest in the corner and wrapping trying to occur.

Dropped the level in the 20lt tank to just above the heater, Put her in a chimney for 30min and he built the nest again, let her out and wrapping and eggs straight away.

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Ok a few more details.

I was feeding the pair wild caught red worm and mosquito larvae regularly - 3 times a day.

January 15th was Spawn date the Female removed and fed mozzie larve, part of dorsal fin missing, when not interested in Male and hiding.

A little panic sets in. No feed for fry!

Quickly hunted in the garden and found a bucket with green green water and started a green water jar.

Also rang around Pet Shops looking for BS Eggs. One shop was getting some in the next week. This I will have to wait for.

Also surfed the net looking for Micro worm culture. Had to wait a couple of days for this and then set up the culture. It would also be a week away.

All this prep work was on the assumption Fry would appear.

January 17 Birthday. Tails can be seen although nest was in the back corner of the tank and very difficult to see.

January 19 Male removed, Some fry seem to be missing. About 15 was the count left.

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Congrats on the spawn! Their colour doesn't quite fit into show definitions of colour. They both have a very traditional type marking. Very close to what is seen on wild splendens, that is, a lot of red on the fins with bits of blue on the dorsal and caudal. Will be interesting to see how your fry turn out.

What are you feeding them now? They should be started on baby brine shrimp.

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Thanks Razzi. I realise they are only LFS specimans. I have exhibition budgies and we show chooks so I realise there can be a negative attitude towards 'backyarders'.I know you have been supportive of 'backyarders' you realise yu next member could be a 'backyarder'. At the moment I'm just enjoying the experience. Who knows what will happen down the track... It looks like there is plenty of support for people on this forum which can only be encouraging for Newbies. Well done.

Yes I did source son BS eggs and have been feeding twice a day since 10 days old.

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3 days old

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9 Days old

Until I started the BBS they were feeding on green water and with the camera on movie setting I could see plenty of 'life' in the tank with an egg suspension also added to the tank on occasions.

At about 16 days the micro worms were ready and were eagerly taken.

fish1%20130_zpse1qycwia.jpg

It is not the best picture but you can see the M/W on the floor being grazed by 2 fry at 21 days old.

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Well done. I think you're doing all the right things. The thing about IBC shows is that although something might not fit into the standard doesn't mean the fish can't be shown. We have the variations class where people can show the new strains they're developing. And also the Form and Finnage class where colour isn't looked at.

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Thanks Razzi.

Seems to be going ok.

Here is a light colored fry 28 days old

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I would approximate @ 1.2cm but there are two that would be 1.5cm but there are some @ .8cm - average about 1cm

Here is a 32 day old

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I have started them on beef heart too. They love tearing it to pieces. I have also tried Mosquito larvae which are half their length but they still manage to engulf the little suckers, it is amazing how they fit them in.

I have not been strict with water changes. About 20% - twice a week.

I will try to get a picture of the dark ones.

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I see there is much discussion on growth rates. Water changes, feeding, genetics can all contribute to growth rates. The impossible thing is to be consistent with what you do. Different feeding regimes (both frequency and content) will see a huge difference I would assume. Varying genetics and choices by breeders for pairings will also provide varying growth rates. What is interesting is the varying size between Fry in the same tank, even in a small spawn. I would expect if you selected the largest Fry in the Spawn for breeding the next generation, a line of super growers could be developed. I do realise however this is not practical for exhibition breeders. It may be the 'runt' who eventually grow out to be the best form or color or good finnage, which needs to be used to carry on the line.

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The giant bettas were selectively bred using normal sized bettas. Some strains do appear to grow more slowly than others though no matter what you try. There is some work being done in Europe where they are selecting for longevity, keeping good form for longer, etc. All part of the fun.

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Update at 6 weeks and 2 days

20150303_115431_zpscslgvxkf.jpg

One of the Darker fry 1.8 cm and

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One of the lighter fry 1.6 cm with a belly full of Mosquito Larvae.

I guess the darker one takes after his mum with the wild type coloring??

Not sure what these light ones will turn into.

Feeding M/W, beef heart, mosquito larvae and some BBS. They love tearing at the beef heart.

9 left in the spawn at this stage with 1.9cm the biggest and the smallest @ .9cm

Just a question on grated frozen blood worm,

How do you grate it. It melts in the fingers?

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I don't grate it. I usually try to buy the smaller Orca brand. With the bigger stuff I just use a knife to cut it up a bit. But I always feel all the good stuff leaks out.

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I found I had most of the red stuff in the thawing water and only the skin in the tank when cutting them up.

Now feeding them live ones from the garden.

Just a question on Double tails. Am I right to assume this is a recessive gene?

Because I was supprised to find this one among the spawn.

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47 days old 1.8 cm

One of the surprises of unknown genetics. Development will be very interesting.

Still a wild type color?

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Yes doubletail is recessive. Both parents must be carriers. Excellent!

Hard to tell on the colour yet. You might have some fish ready for the next IBC show. :)

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7 Weeks old.

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2.1 cm and only 3 of the 5 opaque ones remain opaque. The others are turning into this Wild? color.

Do solids go this non color prior to coloring up? Most of them do look like their mother. Would wild color be dominant?

They are feeding on BBS and beef heart and seem to be growing strongly. The runt 1.1cm is also growing well, which is also a Double tail. So two in this spawn and 1 in the next. 3 from 15, Close to expected if recessive gene.

Growth spurt may also be water changes which have been doubled to twice a week.

Just received some figurine display cases(beanie baby) for jarring. A couple of weeks away yet - I hope.

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Ok, we are now at the 8 week stage. I see a little color developing on the Opaque babies.

Does this look like a Cambodian developing? Or is it just a phase.

20150315_225139_zpsqrljznaz.jpg

Largest is 2.6cm, smallest is 1.3 cm averaging the 2cm mark.

Feeding Beef heart untill they almost burst as the photo shows, BBS once a day and mosquito larvae once a day with a few red worms intermingled.

Looks also to be a simple Delta tail?

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Oops, been a little busy. The growth has slowed dramatically. Probably a bit slack with water changes.

We are at the 11 week stage in the next photos.

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The flash brings out the wild coloring?

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These two look like mum, plain Janes or is that Jack? Any Idea on sex or still too early.

Would you say wild color too?

Seemed to have reached the 2.7cm in length and pretty much stopped. The runt is now not far behind them.

About 1.8cm and gaining.

Feeding BHM, frozen blood worms, BBS and Mosquito larve.

Next - jarring.

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Ok, started the Jarring process.

Number 1 being transferred.

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Number 2 in and 3 being transferred.

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These are the 3 which have colored up the most. 1 & 2 I think are both Males, not sure with 3. Cambodian color.

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Close Ups.

No 1 Looking Male to me.

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No 2 Looking Male to me

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No 3 Looking Female?

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What a mix! Part of the fun I think.

Not sure where to go from here. I look to have a couple of Cambodian color Double tails, paler color than the above at the moment,

What would others think about me creating a line of Cambodian Double tails? Are they around already? Would I be wasting my time?

Is the form anywhere near worth perservering with? Any advice would be taken on board.

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In my view doubletails are gold in the breeders toolkit. Yes there are spinal deformities that can occur but the way to minimise it is to breed to single tail carriers. If you're not squeamish about culling, DT x DT will give you a lot of choice so you can pick the best.

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Great Hook Razzi!

Is there somewhere I can read about Dble Tails being gold?

Are they hard to get? Not squeamish about culling either, Bring it on.

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I'm sure there's been discussions here before but I guess they're scattered in different threads. The pros are that the double tails add width to the dorsal of the single tails and often add additional rays to the caudal. So it can really help if you develop a double tail line alongside your single tail one. The cons are that the DTs all carry a spinal deformity which can be quite extreme in some lines and they also have shorter bodies which you don't want. So it's a bit of a balancing game. When you breed DT to DT you'll get 100% DT which will give you lots to choose from.

Are they hard to get? Yes and no, depending on how quickly you want one. They have dropped in popularity a little bit I think because of the deformity issue. But then someone posts a pic of a really good double tail halfmoon and everyone goes wild.

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Wow I had to renavigate through the process for posting.

Thought I would finish off this log.

I have decided to keep two pair.

I have sold to a LFS, the No1 male above and the plain looking sisters and have decided to keep No's 2 and 3 from above.

I have also decided to keep the runt of the spawn. You can see an early shot of him bottom right @ 10 weeks. Front vertical is No1 above and horizontal behind his head is No 2 above.

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His brothers and sisters seemed to stop growing and here he is all grown up at 18 weeks.

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Completing the two pair is the second female.

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There seems to be a hint of pinapple ? color. 

Wow do you get a variety from unknown parentage purchases.

I think you can see the direction I have decided to go.

Double tail, cambodianish type stock. At some stage I will need to introduced a half moon Cambodian to widen the tail, but we will see what turns up.

Spawn done.

Oh yea, Ooops dad has jumped the barriers to be with Ooops mum and I had free swimmers yesterday. Here we go again!

 

 

 

Edited by Darther
punctuation

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