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melbournebetta

This is Ned, Big Red Ned, all my red fish are called Ned.

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Be ruthless, this is a new fish, whom I hope to start my red ct line... (we'll see!!)

He's just been introduced to the tank, and I've already harassed him with the camera and started introductions to my hot mumma cambodian CT girl

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He sort of has 2 Ray reduction - sort of.... (she has)

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Shots taken with flash- he is definitely dark bodied, and has some irids - fortuantely my CT girl is cambo, so this should help reduce both those from his red.

He's got a good size body and is perhaps super delta?

Let me know what you see - be picky on form and colour, I dont know much about CT, and have decided that all my babies are perfect so I can't see what needs improving!

(critical with everyone else's fish!!)

I am not objective with my own

Cheers

Ness

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Good fish! I think we can call this betta a HSCT (HalfSun Crown Tail), the tail can extend to 180. (so we have HalfSun CT and HalfMoon PK)

I'm a very picky person on Betta, but this is absolutely a pretty fish!

It would be much better if you can give him more space, so he can straighten all his ray or fins in the bottom.

I just don't really like curvy rays.

But congrat on this awesome fish!

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ohhhh. awesome Ned. can't help much with ibc standards, but something about his body looks a bit out of proportion.

either i'm delirious from lack of sleep or his body is too long and a little too skinny at the back @_@

absolutely awesome ventrals though. don't think i've ever seen that much webbing on the ventrals.

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Hopefully I have explained that I have just bought him... he was acclimatizing in the third photo, floating in his bag (:

In the other photos he is flaring in a 20lt spawn tank with his new girl floating in a 1lt perforated container.... preliminary intros to get a flare and a good photo......

The shots are a bit confusing I'll admit!

Oh - and just so it's clear, The "half sun" definition has been used for a few different things, this came up a little while ago - and this is just what the Vic Betta group use as definitions....

Occasionally Half Sun has been referred to a fish that is halfmoon (with a proper 180 degree D shape Caudal) and Crown tail

Such as this fish:

But based on IBC standards he'd just be described as a halfmoon crowntail (just so you know what we're talking about when we say half sun)

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The other use of the term Half Sun has been used to describe comb tail fish - that are standard halfmoon tail x crown tail such as the fish below

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Anyway! argh - thanks for the feedback...

It's so hard to shoot Crowntails when they're busy flaring.... he has got some wonky rays, but fortunately i can't see any curly ones like my pet Tim had:

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MT I think I know what you mean, I hadn't noticed that before - he's the exact opposite in the body of that salamander multicolour above!

He had a GIANT feed of bloodworms at the LFS where I got him - he was SO bloated... I wonder if that body shape is age, build, type or maybe sickness?

mmmmmmm inneresting!

Edited by melbournebetta

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Mess, I'm working from memory here, so I'm sorry if I don't get it spot on. (on the train home and data network drops out so images haven't come up - but I did see the pics of your fish before falling asleep last night)

First I'd like to start with his name... Yes he is a Ned, a red Ned... But he's not your reddest (not therefore the Neddest!). His colour is nice deep/dark red over a dark body, with fairly "extended" coverage onto the face/head too. But... He has a fair bit of blue irid. I'm aware the photos were taken with flash, and that intensifies the appearance of the irid, but even adjusting for that leaves him with quite prominent/obvious blue scales.

Onto conformation

Stupid fat thumb! Btw why are there flies on a train after night fall in autumn/winter??

Back to it... Onto conformation. He has a nice top line and fairly good balance across the horizontal

My stop... Get back soon

Edit again... Pictures now viewed, waiting for the next train.

Top line does have a slight concavity just behind the mouth rather than a completely smooth convexity from mouth to dorsal/beyond.

Balance and weight of fins fairly even, but he is a little bottom heavy. Could do with broader dorsal. Indeed even the web reduction lends itself to making the bottom half of the fish look heavier... Look at the caudal and the line created at the webbing between the rays... Seems to be the webbing stretches further along the rays in the lower most rays. Dunno if I'm seeing things or if it's real, but that's what it looks like in the pics.

The caudal itself Looked like it was close to HM but now I can't see the pics again. From memory the outermost caudal rays were adequate in length (rather than short which is a common fault). The rays themselves seemed straight on the whole, but I got the impression that some of the caudal rays had a slight kink to them. Can't remember the shape/conformation of the anal fin, but I think the rays were straight from memory.

Body size and shape... I've noticed that most crowntails have the exact shape yours does... Big head, bulgy belly and skinny from the middle back. It is a bit of a fault, as they are supposed to have a balanced spindle shape through the body balanced over a horizontal line from mouth to middle of the caudal peduncle. I think the first specimen like it that I've paid attention to was the pic you posted just above of the CT with wonky rays. I think the vast majority of CTs are skinny looking creatures.

He's a good start for a line. Would look at improving colour, dorsal and making the body bigger.

Ok, gotta drive now... Hope that helps.

Edited by paul

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Oh and web reduction is good. Needs to be at least one third - yours is somewhere between third to half, so this is fine.

But now I'm a little confused... Looked at the pics again and can't tell how long the webbing and the rays are in the caudal especially in comparison to the lower half of the caudal. Are these equal in real life?

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Thanks Paul!

for a LFS buy he's not bad, for a show pony perfect red rocket style CT he's got a long way to go....

As I said he's a wiggly little bugger so the pics are kind of deceptive, I bought him because his rays are mostly straight, he's nowhere near as even and nice as that orange fish pictured above, and occasionally the rays divide as double ray reduction, sometimes they dont (toward the edges of the caudal) so I'm hopeful that the female he'll be paired with should help him improve, she has.... had perfect 2 ray reduction until her delightful and now quite dead husband tore her tail up... she's healing a bit, so I should photograph her.

Colour is a big deal - I recognize he's not full red, nor really extended red with a full mask, this I would be working on in the line - I just haven't seen a good red male to start my line with since my stupid red boy carked it.... so this is me biting the bullet and trying to develop something.

He certainly has quite a bit of black and blue in his genetics, so the Cambodian x with mum should be a handy first step forward in improving him.

That long body is something to work on too - i do really like the stocky thick strong bodies of plakat, so this is another "breeding goal" which is the polite way of saying is a giant fault of his.

Is it wrong that I love his red beard and full ventrals? i do.. i love them.

Neddiest may not have been the reddest, but he's me little mate - probably a waste of time cos I don't think I can flog my CT excess fish for real money at the LFS, but I still believe in polishing turds... i mean... breeding better versions of fish that are fairly easily accessed at stores.....

Essentially I'm jealous of Bussy's rockets and I wants sum!

Cheers,

Ness

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The fullness and redness of his beard and ventrals are quite remarkable and definite selling points there Ness.

I sometimes wonder how much damage can be done to a line by breeding back to something so far from the big picture but has everything you want from one little detail. e.g. if you were to breed back to a extended red(super amazing quadruple red) VT just for the colour, and then work back to the big red CT goal??? Sounds like loads of work... But is it that bad really???

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Very nice Ness.

I can't really tell you anything you don't already know Ness. I am sad to say my Red Rocket line is no more. My last girl jumped Monday night. I am guttered as I really didn't know what I had at the time. They were my first pair and I really struggled with them at jarring. I then refined my technique with the orchids but didn't put enough effort into maintaining the reds. I know of a few males still kicking as pets at work.

Sad but all a learning curve. I am now going to concentrate on a few lines only. Still looking for a Rocket replacement.

For old times sake. Bred this boy myself.

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Good luck with your pair Ness. :-)

Edited by Busman

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MT - yes, quite nice.

not a show stopper, but nice enough.

I'll see how he fairs in the spawn tank, it's only that he has a VERY EXPENSIVE WIFE that I'm even bothering...

Paul - end of the day, I want sexual fish. But at the start of the day, I want to work with what I have - are you suggesting that I cannot polish this turd, and should look for a better one?

I don't mind finding a bloody good red CT, they're just so few and far between

Bus - As you well know - sorry to hear that, These fins are bloody hard work aren't they??

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Mess, I'm working from memory here, ...

Just noticed this. *lol* Did it escape comment? Or did the comment escape me?

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Haha. I saw it after I posted, but chose not to amend it. :P

Edit.. Replying to your question ness... He's a polish able turd. He has a nice 180deg spread. His outermost caudal rays are nice and long. His anal and caudal fins appear to be of same length. He has more than the minimum 1/3 web reduction in 3unpaired fins. All great points. His beard and ventrals look great! I think he's got great potential, but as stated previously, I would focus breaking at correcting some of the features I mentioned earlier.

Edited by paul

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