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paul

Metallic ?Lavender? SD x Metallic blue/red SD

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So this spawn is a continuation from the thread about raising fry "thai style" outdoors ==> here <==

The parents are siblings from my last spawn ==> here <==

I intentionally did not select top quality breeders as these fish were being dumped outdoors as part of a "will these fish cope outdoors" experiment.

The father is a decent SD with faily sharp corners to his caudal fin and nice straight rays in all his fins. His colour very hard to describe due to the metallic/dragon effect inherited from both parents. He has a fairly solid red base colour with a light cover of metallic blue over all his fins. His body however is fairly heavily metallic coloured, and the colour range goes from a golden green to a pale/steel blue. I'm not sure if he can be described as a lavender, but I think that's kinda what he looks like overall. His anal is a little too long.

The mother is a girl plucked out of the original tub she was born in only a few weeks ago. She is also a red blue mutli with metallic iridescence that is impossible to describe or accurately capture in pictures. She has nice even ray branching and looked like she was heading toward HM while I had her indoors, but, I'll continue to call her SD. She was fed up in a jar kept indoors - unheated, and occasionally shown off to boys in adjacent jars. She was plump and showing prominent bars and egg spot when I dropped her in the outdoor spawn tub. Her anal is also too long.

The male had been maintaining a bubble nest for over 1 week outdoors while entertaining another female. I replaced his original tank mate on the 2nd Feb (I think) with the current female and waited. There was no chimney or graduated exposure of the intended couple to each other. The girl was simply dropped into the outdoor tub. She showed vertical bars immediately, but tried to lodge herself under/between the large decorative black pebbles in the bottom of the tub. He hassled her, she cowered in fear, but I didn't see any stress stripes or significant fin damage. She remained this way over the next few days. I fed them once daily on the subsequent three days.

The couple spawned on Tuesday 7th (alongside a full moon), but of course I didn't see any of it... just the evidence ... EGGS!

DSC02926.jpg

The girl was removed that day. Unfortunately there seems to be a fairly deep wound toward her caudal peduncle and she has had swim bladder disorder since being re-homed. She has however become full with eggs already, probably as there is a male in the neigbouring jar.

I was able to photograph the eggs each night when I got back from work, and I was excited to be able to see the little embryos developing more and more each day. There was barely a nest, but the father seemed to do an excellent job of keeping the eggs in the same spot. I checked today (5days) and it seems there are some fry not yet free swimming, but, I saw a few swimming around independantly and figured I could remove the father. Dad has been jarred and the fry left to their own devices.

I haven't checked on my vinegar eel cultures in many, many, many months. I have never had success with BBS, so, in keeping with the thread this spawn was born out of, I'm hoping to not need to intervene/feed this lot too much. If needed, I can buy ready hatched day old BBS from the LFS.

Sorry no pics of the parents at this stage, but pics of developing eggies below...

Day 1:

DSC02932.jpg

Day 2:

DSC02942.jpg

Day 3:

DSC02943.jpg

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Oooh... Low maintenance. If this works we'll all be chucking our fish into the backyard next December and waiting til February to see what we have.

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Good luck Paul. I would feed maybe once or twice a week with bbs just to help. :-)

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Thanks guys. It will be interesting to see how these guys might go with minimal intervention.

I'm tending to agree with Busman and think I'll feed them every so often. The temptation to feed them daily is already really strong, but I'd like to see this through.

In order to be able to compare growth rates, and make this experiment sound a little more scientific (though this really lacks any real statistical relevance) I have plucked two random fry out of the outdoor tub and plunked them in to my shrimp tank. There will be less competition for available infusoria and more water per fry. The tank is unheated, but is indoors. There will naturally be temperature swings, but less than the outdoors tub. Interestingly, these fry are still not free swimming (vertical against the glass and still have a little yolk sac left over)

Adam, I have a feeling that the temptation to raise spawns outdoors in Sydney will sadly remain just a temptation. I really don't think our weather is warm or stable enough.. Nor our summers long enough to be able to reliably and safely raise a precious spawn of quality HMs in a neglected out door tub/pond. We'll see how this goes, but I have my reservations about this being a full on success.

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Great news, Paul!

Good luck with them. I was thinking about sticking Sina and one of the boys out in the pond out the back recently - but I thought it just seems too cold right now, and no way I can heat it.

Looking forward to seeing how they go. :)

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Great work Paul and a very intresting read I will be waiting to read future updates It sounds like a great way to grow out the ones we are not sure of as there can be a lot of them in some spawns

Cheers

les

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Sarah, you need to hurry along that Brisbane trip so that you can get to spawning little Sina. I'm sure you have her well conditioned, and as a sibling of this pair I'm sure she'll be fairly productive on the egg front if her sister is anything to go by.

Les, it would be an option for those questionable runts, and for those of us too weak to cull if there are just too many fry... let nature take its course and allow the survival of the fittest. Not sure everyone would agree that this is the ideal way... but indeed the most "natural" in an artificial kinda way.

Couldn't help myself, had to take a pic or two of the parents during their water changes today. You can see the range of colours the boy shows.. I'm leaning more towards green metallic (maybe even pushing towards dragon)with a lot of red wash rather than lavender now that I look at the pics, but I still have no idea how to classify his colour (I know the easiest and most correct is metallic multi... but humour me).

The sire:

SuperDeltaMale.jpg

The dame:

SuperDeltaFemale.jpg

I covered up the red raw fleshy injured bit on her tail with another pic... just a little too unpleasant. It's clean looking and hopefully healing up.

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Hey Paul

Blacks black and reds red not some other outlandish word that has no meaning. Ill stand up and say yes I cull and heaverly otherwise what els could I do whilst playing GOD and breeding to a set goal only to please my own hedonistic curiosity

LOL

Please no one take offence I am Insane

Chers

les

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So I managed to spot the little guy in the shrimp tank today. He's feasting on tiny micro-organisms in the tank. Noticed he pooped too which was kinda gross but cute seeing it was about the size of a dust particle. I took a photo and video which surprisingly you can see him in both!

First pic was a still taken with macro setting then cropped:

DSC029911.jpg

Next is a still taken from the video:

M4H029941.jpg

And video... excuse the constantly changing background colour - I was trying to get the light just right over/around the tank to keep the fish visible and in focus.

Haven't been outside for a couple days, so don't know what's happening in the tub, but saw "a couple" of fry about 2 days ago. They are of course TINY!!!

Edited by paul

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Update with possibly the best fry pics I've ever taken (total flukes). Took these shots a couple of days ago, and although this is an "outdoor experimental spawn", the only fry that I've been keeping an eye on/monitoring is this guy - solo in the indoor shrimp tank. He's doing pretty well, and at a very early age, already showing blue iridescence on his back and I'm sure that in one of the pics you can just make out tiny little ventral buds starting to emerge. very early/pre-emptive YAY! I haven't interfered/fed this little guy at all. He seems to be growing just as fast as my previous spawns... but I'll have to check and compare.

3weeks from spawn date... 2.5weeks from free swimming date.

DSC030491.jpg

DSC030481.jpg

I checked on the ones outside very briefly on the weekend and saw one that was a decent size, one a little smaller, and one that was about the size of a newly hatched fry... this should be expected I guess. To be 100% honest, I'm kinda hoping that these outdoor ones will partake in a little cannibalism to encourage the growth of the larger ones, remove the runts and weaklings, and prevent me from needing to feed them, and prevent overcrowding as they get bigger. Unfortunately, I will never be able to know what's going on out there for sure, as they are very difficult to observe in that tub.

Added a little aged water on two occasions so far to keep up with evaporation. Otherwose, I have not done anything with these guys outside.

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Great Pics Paul He looks realy good. Can you pick up any couler on your out side fry? I couldnt on mine but they have coulerd up after being transferd just wondering if yours are similer?

Cheers

Les

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Ate you feeding these at all Paul? That indoor boy looks to gave a full tummy. :-)

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Paul, I haven't fed these guys at all. This little guy has always had a fairly full looking belly, and there have always been quite a few seed shrimp in the tank. The number of visible seed shrimp at any one time are now diminishing. I have a feeling this fella will work through the seed shrimp, then he will probably be big enough to take out the newly released shrimplets, and then...? The outside fry are not being fed either (despite my initial enthusiasm to feed them every so often.

Les, I really haven't looked closely enough to tell if the outside fellas show any irid/colour. Will try look today, but already getting dark, and I'm not home from work yet.

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That indoor boy is looking well fed and happy, Paul. Can't get over him showing irid so early in his development. Must be the all you can eat buffet :D

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Not much change with the little fella in the shrimp tank. Looks about the same as when I took that pic a week ago, just maybe a little bigger. The seed shrimp he's been eating are now very difficult to find due to the drop in numbers. He's still too small to eat the shrimplets (I think).

Jarrod, I think the irids may be partly because of the metallic/dragon heritage that these fry have. Grandad was a blue dragon ("super blue") and Grandma a copper. Dad has quite a bit of shiny irid as well. It could just be that the irid shows up with the fluoro light directly overhead too.

I wasn't able to check on the outside tub at all through the week due to getting home after dark each day, but I did try, and caught a glimpses of the occasional fry with the help of a torch. This morning (afternoon by the time I actually got out of bed), I had a look at the outside tub, and I'm happy to report that I definitely saw 4 fry out there. 3 quite pale/bright coloured and one darker bodied. They are probably about the same size as the fella in the indoor shrimp tank. I couldn;t spot any others, but I'm sure there are more in there. I tried to get a picture but they are absolutely impossible to photograph.

I thought about buying some BBS to feed them, but got busy with other stuff, so it's going to continue to be a "fend for yourselves" experiment for a little longer.

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:devil: just deleted the entry I was about to post... Grrrr!

Anyway...Short version... he's fatter than his siblings outside. I fed him micropellets for last 3 days and today I think he's figured out how to catch the tiny little shrimpletts... he was fatter in the afternoon and I hadn't fed him!

DSC03075.jpg

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Thanks Razzi, he's pretty pale/white in colour but has a nice light blue shiny irid layer all over. Cant wait to see how he turns out.

I don't think it will be too long before he grows bigger. I haven't seen him manage to get another shrimplet, but over the last two days he has enthusiastically eaten micro-pellets, so I'm assuming he'll get bigger fairly quickly.

Have a look:

Edit: 5 and a half weeks from spawning date

Edited by paul

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Ness, I use my Sony Cybershot DSC-T90 for all my pics/vids. It's a great little camera. Fluoro light directly over the tank helps alot too.

Moss rock also a direct result of the fluoro light directly over it for too many hours in the day. I likee 2.

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I want that rock. My dad had some huge ones like that. Awesome. :-).

Fish looks good too. Lol.

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Ok Busman You take the rock Ill take the camara. Just kidding, It is a great vid Paul, Its a shame we dont have a vidio archive on the forum where all of the one voted best could be put. Do you know what type of rock that is Paul?

Cheers

les

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Sorry boys, the rock and the camera stay. Les it's just a piece of sandstone I think. Got it from Parramatta river bank somewhere from memory. It really has only just started to get a nice grren cover of algae over it due to having the light on too long. I'd guess it would be fairly straight forward to do in any tank (ie forget the light on and grow algae)

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