Matt_95 Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 That should work as well :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadoh Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 PH back to 7.4. Hair algae growing as fast as I can rip it out. Going to try the H2O2 - I'm ready to try anything... I'm spending more time playing with the tank than I did when it was bare bottomed. Just got to focus on the end result when everything stabilizes and it virtually looks after itself :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Yep. My little tank doing the same as of today. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_95 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Something is seriously wrong if it is growing back that fast, even in tanks I have started with way less plants than I shoudl have all I get is a litle bit of algae... I di use a different substrate though... I'm stumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadoh Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Just spot dosed with H2O2. Big job considering 90% of the tank is covered. Algae is now bubbling away... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Hey Jarrod I have been looking over this thread and on a second glance at the substrate you said you got a bag of Bloob and Bone, Now this is only for a horticultural point of view , Was it Blood and Bone or was it Blood and Bone Pluse If it was pluse then that is where you could be finding the problem as it hase the addition of Phosphate wich will give you the algle blooms. This is only IMO from what I have read so far. The bigest problem is there realy isnt any difference in the look of the bags and it is quite easy to get mixed up to the point that recently at Bunnings they did have them mixed up on the shelf becouse the young guy that had put them away didnt recognise the differance. Just thought it might be an explanation as to why this is happening Cheers Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadoh Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Les, you are right - I've got the plus. I was told it would work fine with the substrate and that the extras would be benificial, but now you mention it, it would be the Phosphate causing the problems. Grrrr!!!! Now what can I do???? I've set up another tank the same way and Paul has done the same on 2 tanks using plus as well :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Hey jarrod Tthe only thing I can think of is Flushing as that is what I would do if it where with terestrial plants phosphates are water soluble so if you pass enough water through the tank it will reduce it but not knowing QTY I dont know how much is nesersary. the remainder of fert from B&B should be allright though so the tank will still work after. I am sorry I havent chimmed in earlyer but I have beem mulling it over for the last two days, what with B Mans probs but when Matt said he nadnt had any probs that was the only conclusion I could make so abstract analisis came up with that. Cheers Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadoh Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I was just reading the bag. It contains 2.5% phosphorus and I have used 4 tablespoons. I've been doing a 10% waterchange each time I remove the algae from the plants/substrate while vacuuming it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Hey Jarrod up it to 50% after the removel of Alge and when your not removing alge stop the water change, sorry thats all I can com up with as it dosnt take much for it to start the blooms. I hope this helps as I do want to try this myself and so I am hoping after this it all works out. Cheers Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_95 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Phosphates don't cause algae... Lack of CO2 does, your right though, you do want to keep it down in a non CO2 injected tank. The higher levels of P cause the plants to demand more CO2 which of cause is limited in your tank. When you drop the phosphates the demand for CO2 also drops which will make the problem go away. This leads some people to make the incorrect assumption that P causes algae, this was what PMDD was based on, that limmiting P will keep algae away, it's now an outdated method which has been replaced by EI, non limmiting nutrients so there are never any shortages. Sorry for the ramble, just wanted to say that... In your case though you do want to limit P. Since it's a new tank you should be doing frequent water changes. It takes a while for the substrate to stop releasing nutrients abd an equalibrium to take place with in the tank. Sorry, I assumed you were doing water changes, Diana suggests that in the last chapter of her book. Once again sorry, I thought you were doing water changes right now....Another thing I do is soak the soil prior to use so that I've leached out as much stuff as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Hey Jarrod Thids isnt a thread hijack I promis and I am not trying to contradict Matt but we have special low Phos Ferts that are used in and around the Peel and Harvey inlets also The Swan River Trust encorages the use of non Phos Fert aound the catchment as this reducess algle bloms So I would sugest it depends on which scientis you are talking to a bit like Globel Warming. Cheers Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_95 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Lol, look up Tom Barr, he explains it like a million times better than me, explaining is not my strong point. I would assume the natural water bodies are CO2 limitedas well. Low CO2 is the root of most algae issues. I'll try find a link that explains it better than me (I failed)This looks good: http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/3347-Does-too-much-phosphate-cause-algae was hoping for anarticle but I am tired. Didn't read it so I hope it's a good one. Another thing to keep in mind are that planted aquariums are vastly different to natural bodies of water. Detergent was also a massive cause for algae, it used to be full of phosphates.Oh and perhaps this would be best as a seperate topic? This is a very interesting subject (to me at least) and would like to discuss it but don't want to hijack Jarrods thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadoh Posted December 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Ok. Algae problems finally under control. Melting Val fixed itself. Crypts starting to take off. All in all, I am VERY happy with this tank I spent the day trimming back the wild forest and cleaning down the few algae spots and marks on the glass. Vacuumed up the dead plant matter from the floor of the tank (sorry Matt, I know I am supposed to let it and the mulm decompose to feed the plants, but I don't think it will make a lot of difference if I do it once a month.) Added some fresh water and it is now looking the way I wanted it to for the photo comp, but couldn't find the time. The flower on my Aponogeton ulvaceus finally opened just in time for christmas. Nobody found it as exciting as me. Oh well... The flower stalk before I cut it off. It was well over a metre long! Some random tank shots... Plenty more if anyone is interested... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadoh Posted December 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Got more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Ok then post them Cheers Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadoh Posted December 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Hey Jarrod thats such a good job you have done with that tank It insoiers me to try with my other three footer. Would you do anything diferent if you where doing it again? Cheers Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadoh Posted December 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Thanks Les. For the headaches early on, the pay-off is worth it The only things I would change are - NOT using blood and bone plus and using the "original". Not making the substrate as thick (took my measurements late at night - in the morning it was obvious it was 2cm thicker than it should have been.) Adding more floating plants from the start until plants establish themselves and probably add DIY CO2 from the start. It isn't enough to sustain a tank this size, but it helped to combat the algae problem and a nice added boost to the plants... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Looks fantastic mate. Looking at yours makes me want my T5 lights NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_95 Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Looks great Jarrod, vacuuming even once a month could lead to problems further down teh track, it is the only soorce of some nutrients down the track when they are no longer available in the substrate, From memory blood and bone is comprised mainly of Ca and P, clay will have mainly iron bonded to it, it forms a bond stronger than the other micronutrients so they would proabably be in very short supply. It will be interesting to see how it goes anyway :)If you run into problems I'm sure it could be remidied with additions of chelated micronutrients. Only advice from me would be to trim the HM and Ludwigia (glandulosa?)down very low to promote branching and bushier growth. How come you didn't try to propagate the apon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadoh Posted December 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Thanks Matt, I know you'll always come in with some great advise I will give the ludwigia a chop as it is the only plant without sideshoots. I actually trimmed the HM back by a third I'll hang off from trimming that for now, as I want to use some trimmings for the wild tank next week when it is re-siliconed and ready to rescape. As for the apon, how do I propagate it? Please don't tell me by seed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_95 Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 If you google "dutch aquascape" you will see that they have very dense bunches of plants, they do this with rigerous trimming to promote side shoots. You dust a water colour brush over the flower to fertilise it and the seeds form with a soft spongey coat, they float off and germinate then sink to the bottom and begin growth. Make sure you get all of the pieces of HM out, it will regrow its self from tiny leaf fragments, I find it a weed now, that and the fact it has decided to try to become a carpeting plant and is begining to take over my foreground with runners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadoh Posted December 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Matt I was just reading that my Apon (white flowered) needs to cross pollenate with another plant and that only the violet flowered ones self pollenate.... It should throw out another flower stalk in a few weeks time , so I'll try and see if it will self pollenate anyway. Worth an experiment, don't you think so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_95 Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 I've read conflicting information on pollinating this one, from what I have read though if the flower is self fertile it needs some help from us to be pollinated. Mine is throwing a stalk now but its leaves are deformed, in terrestrial plants I would assume something has damaged the growing tip, hopefully it will correct itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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