Breeding Giants

[les]

Well I have been trying to get my Giant boy in the mood since I got him his giant girl friend is well and ready and up for the job but well he just like to kick back so as all my Betta are on just live food I was looking for somthing to just pep him up I have tried the following that seem to work for normal size betta

1. Heavely Katapang the water

2. Increase fodd rations and frequacy

3. up the frequancy of water changes

but I seem to only just get him there and its just a few Bubbles not a nest at all, So I had put the cherry shrimp trap in the shrimp tank and was going to take some to my mate at teh LFS for store credit but thourt well ill se if it makes any diferance and low and behold I think it must have been the jerkyness of the shimp movement that stimulated him and in two days he had a decent size nest and he is much more active so besides the black worms , grindel worms and mozie lavea cherrie shrimp is on his menu.

I have distroyed his nest this morning and will not give him any shrimp for the next two days to see it it realy is the stimules that he needs abd if there is no nest after that time I will reintroduce shimp to his menu and if he then builds a nest it must be the stimules that he needs. I hope this makes sense as I havent found a lot on the net about giants and I did post for info but ether not many members have giants or they didnt get what I was trying to achive

Cheers

les

[paul]

I thought everyone knew that seafood is an aphrodisiac! Lol!

Don't know that you can claim the shrimp are the reason for the change in behaviour, but you never know. Perhaps it's the type of nutrients the shrimp provide? Interesting observation, but it would take a more rigorous experiment to prove your theory. Let us know how this big boy goes with the prawn cocktail appetizer!

[SiameseFightingFist]

You two are up really early...

[DenningA.Rajit]

Hey Les,

What I did try with my giant or half giant was that I used another male to stimulate his protective instinct. I had the giant and his mate in the spawn tank first. Then, later introduce another male in a separate temporary takeaway container. I allow both male to mimic the sparring they will have to go through to mate. I left them there about 30 minutes and took the another male out and place him into his own container.

A day later, the giant had build a bubble nest and had entice the female to spawn, which they did.

I did try the conventional way of spawning i.e. chimney and conditioning but it did not work for me.

I think from this way the giant male have to protect his mate from the other male. The female feel secure as she watched the whole battle live. Also. none of the male betta was hurt in the battle exchange as well. Another factor was the weather, they spawned right after the recent rain in melbourne had stopped.

Hope this helps.

[shadoh]

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you Les. One thing that I have been told by an experienced breeder of giants is that you have to breed them young as they get lazy and lose interest in breeding altogether very quickly.

[melbournebetta]

This is all pretty interesting, I'll be introducing my "champion of the universe" giant "Dirty Sanchez" to his missus.... She's a bit flat (on the best of days) so this pair are first in the spawn tank, again.

Had a failed attempt, but we were all half hearted about it- except sanchez, he loves life and spends his timd in his tank running laps around the ring like a champion boxer perhaps it's the firey Spanish name?

I might try the varied menu and a slightly more "territorial" inspired approach to the introductions and conditioning.

If only I could bring them back some of these fresh tassy oysters!!! Nom Nom....

Keen to hear how othershave gone with the giants' and intros, might talk to Preecha when I get back & see if there's some insight.

x Ness

[les]

@ Paul

Well thats exacly what I will try and find out and if he breeds I will keep a few more than I usualy do to run proper controled experiments on and document and post.

@ SFF

No I was up late its getting to be the only way I can find time to get on hear.

@ Dragit82

I usualy try that one with PK males that are a bit problematic but it didnt work with this fella but thanks for the sugestion and feel free to come up with more as I am always willing to try

@ Jarrod

Hey Jarrod

I dont realy know how old he is but he is 3 inches long. He has put on quite a grwth spert since I got him but I have had heard of the age thing but it was the other way around you couldnt breed them to early. I will try and find out where or who told me it and if you could find some info from your mate then that would be fantastic. Have you got a replacment for the giant you lost recently?

@ Ness

cant wait to see that fella in the spawn tank I remember seeing him on the pics after Thailand. Did you get a big girl for him or are you going for half giants and breeding up

Cheers

Les

[sha]

I am having real issues trying to breed my pair. After the male created one of the largest nests I have ever seen he then lost interest and seems more interested in trying to attack my female. My female doesn't seem to know what is going on and just hides even though she keeps giving off the right signs. I am thinking I will have to seperate the pair of them and give them some time to themselves before trying again.

Edit: When I say seperate I mean put them in different tanks at the moment they see each other which I think may be contributing to the issue.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Sha

[DenningA.Rajit]

Les,

I am still trying to figure out what I did to make my Giant PK to spawn other than the introducing another competitor into the spawn scene. I had the normal indian almond leave (brown water), java moss, indian almond leaf (actual) and basically after that he started to build a nest.

One thing as well, the female I used was my old cambodian female I had since beginning of last year. I had tried to spawn her with a lavender Rosecomb betta I had but nothing happened then. But, when i tried with my Giant, she was superb. She knew what to do. When to hide and when to show herself to the giant. She knew by hiding under the leaf was the best way while waiting for the male to build his nest. After that, you have the normal hello release chimney method i.e. 5 mins - 10 mins (under supervision), 25 mins (unsupervised)

My Giant Pk fry at the moment are just under 3 weeks old. No great change in size yet compare the web betta growth benchmark. Been feeding bbs and grindal worms now. They starting to show ventrals as well and the smallest fry in this spawn is about the size of the runt of my first HM x CT spawn.

That's my two cents about breeding giants.

Best of luck with your pair. Hoping to hear what other ways we could breed giants.

For conditioning for my giant,

I mainly use plenty of black worms i.e. the amount of worms he can gulp in 2 minutes or when he stopped going frenzy about the black worms. Had not carded him since I got him from LFS. He had been having mock sparring with my avatar's profile betta everyday over a piece of glass and expose to plenty morning sun (locate my tank in my garage where the fish can catch the morning sun).

I had never put him and another male to fight but when I got him i think he was probably had a fight before or prior to arrival to my LFS, from a battle scar he had on his left side of his body.

[les]

Thanks for all of your responses guys

This guy has realy grown he has finished off all the spare cherry shrimp and I have been increasing the black worms as sugested but as soon as he is introduced to the girl he stops the nest and plays hard to get so as Dragit sugested I put my meenest DT in with him this guy has allready killed one girl during un supervised courtship. so he sidels up and is flaring like mike tyson and the giant boy just swam straight in to him no agresion just pushed him off I think it has dented the DTs ego but thats a good thing but still no nest while the girl is in sight. do have an Old VT girl thats been around the block once or twice so I will see if she can do a Mrs Robinson if it works I will call him Dustin well tomorows another day and if the VT girl dosnt work I will wait till next month as age might be a factor

Cheers

Les

[les]

Well HALLELUJAH he has figured out how to blow bubbles and man are they big, The only thing that I have done diferent is that I have heaverly Katapanged the water and when I say heaverly and had a big hyperactive VT girl going spass in the tank for a day or two and that reved him up a bit. I can bearly see the boy as he swimms around and the only way I know he has a nest is that it is raised ubove the water level so hears hopping I will add the girl and see how he goess

Cheers

Les

[les]

Bubbles gone and he is not intrested:confused:

I have been corasponding with a breeder in Thialand he has over 2000.00 of the big buggers in bottles.I asked him the following questions and these where his responsess

1. Q. How long do they live for. A. He has had them live for up to two years but very rarely over that.

2. Q What is the right age to breed them A. Between 4 and 10 months of age over twelve months and they can become inactive

3. Q what do you feed them A. Tubifix worms, they eat more than other Betta but you must be carfull not to over feed them as this can make them inactive and hard to breed

3. Q what other esentials to breeding A. Water quality is very impotant as they eat more ther is more out put so you have to be on top of water changes

He also went on to say thet even though he has so many not all thive some over eat and some under eat so you have a few isues there.

so in conclusion I would like to thank Srat for his help and I will post more info as I aquire it

Cheers

Les

[DenningA.Rajit]

Les,

I can relate to the size of the bubble made by your giant. I was amazed how the big the bubble was when i first played around the idea of breeding giants. From my view, it's double the size of the bubble blown up my my normal betta. Hence, giant bubbles for giant bettas .

At the moment, my giant is at mend because he have a sore under his lips. but, I can confirm about them being inactive. Mine's slowly slowing down to a flick here and there. Must be old age catching up on him . It's a pity I don't know the age of my giant I bought from my LFS. But, happy nevertheless to have some babies from him. I haven't seen other giants so far to compare whether he is a true giant or a half giant. Will see at Victora betta meeting to compare size of other giant bettas there on show.

[les]

Hi Dragit

That would be great if you compare them it will give you a base line to work from although there will allways be a variation and Surat only picks the bigest and best from a spawn. Giants with not bad conformation are now being seen and specifict types like red dragons wich are looking quite good but it dose take a lot longer to fix these thins becouse of the ratios in a spawn. Good luck at the show

Cheers

Les

[les]

Ok so after reserching with USA breeders I have found out the following.

1. As fry they need to be feed a lot and by that this guy recons 6 to 8 times a day and larger QTY than normal fry. ( One resone why he got out of breeding them as its time costly)

2. The girls take time to mature for breeding but the males breed early so the best combination is a young male with an older girl. ( ROAR for all you Cougers)

3. 4 inches (A hand in hourse talk) is about th upper end in size and this lady has seen more Betta than most of us have had hot dinners (Collectivly thats a lot LOL)

4. She also has made an oservation that they seem to need more oxygen than normal size as she has to rebag them before shipping forward ( Which is quite intresting as the larger body mass would be maily muscle and that might be the reason) but that might only be due to there shipping as thats her thing

So I must say i am pleased with the head way and hope you all get somthing out of it

Cheers

Les

[melbournebetta]

Thanks for this Les,

I'm watching this thread for tips and tricks at the moment, as the champion of the universe(3/4 giant) is in the spawn tank, tonight I introduce his missus (who is 1/2 giant) fingers crossed eh!

I would have anticipated more feeds and quantity, it'll be interesting to see what the number of eggs are like from a giant.

Super size me!

x Ness

[DenningA.Rajit]

Les,

Thanks for sharing.

I will remember to feed the fry more than usual, all depends on BBS hatchery.

I think this is maybe why my giant are slow to grow. I only feed them twice a day in the begining.

Also, during weekends I feed about 4 times a day. Mostly blackworms.

Up to this day, their growth are really slow. Maybe I should give pellets a go since they have more protein and fat.

[les]

@ Ness

Thats cool I am hopping to see a spawn log for your pair very soon that would be so good and I know your pics will be sensational I recon from whats being thrown around that your pair will produce Giant sized bry if the rearing is right couse its not just the genes its a culmination of things

@ Drajit

You will realy need to up it to at least 6 feeds a day and as Jim Sonnier said to give them as much room as posible so if this means splitting a spawn then thats the way to go, this makes so much sense when you think of GIH and how it effect fry in a normal size spawn so with giants the GIH must be produced in larger QTY so Increased amounts of food plus increased frequency of water changes and maximum size growing area

As I find out more Ill post it

Cheers

Les