Hello from Melbourne!

[SiameseFightingFist]

Hi everyone,

I've been wanting to have an aquarium for a long time now but never got around to it because of the costs involved and the commitment required. Recently I went out and bought 'Freshwater Aquariums for Dummies' and have been reading it in the past couple of weeks. It's really stirred the interest in getting an aquarium again and finally this weekend I bought a 90L fish tank on eBay for a good price (includes filter and pump attached to the top cover plus other minor accessories).

I also bought the e-book 'Caring for Betta Fish' by Marcus Song online, I was hoping to set up a small betta-centric community tank, if that makes sense, which was why I went for a 90L tank which should provide ample space for the Betta. Potential tank mates recommended by the Dummies book and the Betta book (and some internet sites) include tetras, plecos, angelfish, possibly glass shrimp too, is that right?

Re plants - as I understand it, Java moss is recommended to provide hiding places for the Betta and also deal with fish waste and help convert some of the carbon dioxide to oxygen. Also some tall plants that reach the waterline so the Bettas can use them as rest points are also recommened too so I was hoping to get some of those. I've also got some tank accesories that the Betta can hide in if it wants.

Am I on the right track? What do you recommend I do with the built-in filter/pump if it's too fast or powerful for the Betta? I'm not sure what wattage the pump is at this stage but it's the one that's built into the top cover so I'm assuming it's been optimised for a 90L tank.

[fishbites]

Welcome to AusAqua

Usually top filters are not too strong on water flow for Bettas... so should be ok....

As for tank mates

- Angels are cichlids - cichlids by nature are aggressive - they have the potential to shred the fins of your Bettas....

- tetras are fine and usually don't pay any attention to Bettas

- plecos grow very big and contribute a lot of waste to a tank - maybe start with a few small bristlenose catfish or corydoras instead....

- glass shrimp babies will become very tasty meals for most Bettas and tetras - not sure if adults will survive a hungry Betta either

Plants do not deal with fish waste - they will consume nitrates but the gunk on the bottom of the tank will just stay there so you do need to vacuum your tank regularly and change water regularly..... the plants make a tank look better and provides resting and hiding places for fish as well.... be careful of shops selling non-aquatic plants for tanks (some are terrestrial and will rot in a few weeks) - only buy true aquatic plants....

Use the search facility on the forum and you'll find many great threads of info to help and don't be afraid to ask questions - some of us have a bit of experience to share as well :)

[SiameseFightingFist]

Thanks very much for your reply fishbites! That's awesome news about the top filter, I was a little concerned about that one after having seen some similar tanks on youtube (the one I bought is the Atman AR-620.

Thanks also about the tank mates, I'll look up bristlenose catfish and corydoras. Didn't know about the shrimp being betta-food though, nor about the angelfish being incompatible tank mates with the Betta. hmm... looks like I have a bit of sifting to do through the information I have at the moment.

Thanks again.

[melbournebetta]

What Wayne said (and welcome!!) Always lovely to see another convert in the southern states!

A female betta sorority is an incredible little environment to watch, so instead of one frilly moody betta - and a whole lot of others, you could get lost (as I do) looking into a sorority of colourful ladies.

They're pretty docile (there's always ONE alpha exception to this rule) and live happily together.

Needless to say you don't keep males and females together....

Sounds like you're on the right track - doing all the research first... very wise!

A hot-tip with an Ebay tank is to fill it OUTSIDE and let it rest for a day or two to see if it has any leaks.. I've been caught out too many times with second hand tanks (super easy to repair if it is the case - so don't fret)

Plants are great - and any floating plants are handy for resting spots - in the middle of the night my betta can all be found perched against a plant near the surface.

They will also help with the natural water-cycle, and improve the water chemistry (but there'll still be gunk on the floor!)

Next decision is gravel/bare bottom, sounds like you might gravel it up with the plants and things, so look into a gravel siphon - they're cheap and very handy.

Have a look through and see what other members do to establish and CYCLE their tanks - you can save yourself a major headache working this out.

I'd say, the best community tanks I've seen with the least tears have been HEAVILY planted, with plenty of hiding spaces for betta - as they do stress out a bit.

Next Question is: What kind of Betta do you want?

Bettarazzi might even have some of his amazing males for sale at the moment, I've got a handful of his super blue females and they are just like blue GEMS in the sorority.

(: Can't wait to see pics!

[SiameseFightingFist]

hi melbournebetta, I dropped by the LFS this afternoon after posting my welcome here on this forum, I was surprised to see a whole tank of so many female bettas, they all seemed to get along. The guy at the shop told me that with a 90L tank, there will be space for a male and female betta if that's what I want, plus about another 30 or so small fish like tetras.

Thanks for that tip about filling the tank outside, I wouldn't have thought about that. I might do it in the laundry and see how it goes. I've exchanged emails with the eBay seller, I'll pick up the tank tomorrow after work. The guy at the shop advised six weeks (SIX weeks!!) of tank cycling with a couple of cheaper fish like tetras before I can add a betta. Six weeks!! I don't know how I'm going to wait another month and a half for this....

I am planning to buy a siphon from eBay.

Can you show me an example of a 'heavily planted' community tank with a betta? I'd be more than happy to accommodate the betta(s). I'll look through the forum to see what plants other members are using.

[SiameseFightingFist]

I don't really know what kind of betta I want yet, although I did see some beautiful ones at the LFS. There were a couple of deep red ones (no idea what kind they are) that I thought were really nice. I don't think i'll be going for any expensive ones at this stage, I am thinking of getting one male and one female (plus a few other species in the community). It's a pity the colourful male bettas are solitary creatures, I would've wanted to get a few of them in the tank otherwise.

I haven't been approved by the mods yet, can't do searches or view member profiles. I have been manually perusing the forum so far. Is Bettarazzi located in Melbourne?

[Bettarazzi]

Welcome to the forum SFF. Yep I'm in Melbourne.

[Yanagi]

Heavily-ish planted community tank which had Betta(s) in it.

Majority ruled by Java/Indo/Windolov/Narrow leaf fern with lots of anubias and various sword plants. Floating plants include amazon frogbit, hornwort and water sprite. Various other bits and pieces thrown in just to see how it does in a low light situation.

Mixing a male and female(s) Betta is a terrible idea all round, the male WILL get shredded, ignore the idiot at your LFS. The only time it is acceptable to put them together is during breeding.

Suitable tankmates for male/females include platys, most dwarf gouramis (you get the occasional jerk), smaller tetra that aren't nippy, rasbora, corydoras, bristlenose, etc. I've watched 3 female Bettas team up to take down adult ghost shrimp, even they aren't safe. Angelfish are iffy, you need to get ones with the right personality. I wouldn't recommend a beginner mix them. I'm sure others will have more advice but I've got to run.

Welcome to the forum. :)

[SiameseFightingFist]

Hi Bettarazzi!

Yan - that is awesome. I had a look on youtube and saw some really awesome aquascaped tanks. Does a tank like yours restrict or limit fish movement though?

I thought I was doing the right thing by reading up first but I am getting conflicting information already. The Dummies book recommended angelfish but as fishbites said they're not good for bettas. The guy at the LFS and the Betta Care book I bought said it was ok to more than one bettas in a large tank (the LFS guy knew I had bought a 90L tank) but as I've learnt, that is not true. I guess I am more likely to listen to you guys here who I assume are betta enthusiasts, specifically.

I picked up my tank from the eBay seller last night, I can't wait to get stuck into it. The LFS guy recommended 6 weeks of tank cycling first with a couple of small tetras only in the tank. What do you guys say? I wanted to buy a betta now first and then add the other fish in later after proper cycling, is that not recommended?

Also, I've just discovered Walstad low-tech aquariums...... I've got a lot of reading to do.

[melbournebetta]

Hey Fist,

It's a bit tricky with all the conflicting info around.... but that's mainly because lots of different fishkeepers have had different experiences.... because all our fish have different temperaments.

Firstly, it's best to establish who you trust, and where you get your information from.

I've got two LFS, one is great because their range is Huuuuuuuuge and they are really close to me, so I go there - but NEVER ask questions, the staff in there are generally pretty inaccurate with info (there's one manager I do quiz when he's around)

The second LFS I will happily stand with and talk to for hours! He's right into the fish, and bloody clever....AND knows what he's talking about..... go visit Subscape Aquarium in Richmond if you're near by.

Anyhoo, it's one male or 10+ females I'm afraid.... even the tanks where people have SUPER calm males - still end up with nips and bites and scraggily bullied fish - and that's just not fun for anyone.

We've pretty much covered the cycling thing - have a look at this thread: http://ausaqua.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=12298&st=0&p=135887&hl=cycling&fromsearch=1&#entry135887

You should do a little bit of research into lights for plants now.

x

[SiameseFightingFist]

Thanks Melbournebetta, even having a quick look at that website for Subscape Aquarium it's been helpful. I live in Lower Templestowe and work in the CBD, Richmond is a bit out of my way so I wasn't familiar with that shop. I'll have a read through the link you provided about tank cycling when I get home.

I'll have to re-think the male betta thing.

[Neffy]

I agree with the information posted here my experiance is similar too

I have 10+ female betta in with two angel fish (a pair) heavily planted like yans tank and have never observed the angel fish doing more then shoo the bettas away that said ive found 3 dead bettas over the 6months ive had the tank and one with a broken tail that i rescued.. it could be unrelated or it could be the work of the angelfish or the other betta girls.

I dont keep my breeder girls in that tank :P

Edited September 20, 2011 by Neffy

[SiameseFightingFist]

If only the fish can talk, Neffy. The LFS I went to, they had a tank comtaining a large number of female bettas, I was surprised.

But what I was more surprised about was they also had a male betta in a 4ft tank containing a heap of other species.

Edited September 21, 2011 by SiameseFightingFist

[Yanagi]

The amount of plants in there did hinder the movement of the larger fish but they had their own open areas and the dense plants allowed for smaller fish to get in and hide if the need was there. It didn't really cause too much of a drama but I did end up removing the large fern in the left/off center as it grew to reach 3 sides of the tank and that really did hinder the fish. Even the largest Angelfish in there would just sit there infront of the leaves expecting it to move. He didn't seem to realize he was big enough to just push through it.

For a bit more info on Angelfish, they're the sort of fish that have a LOT of personality. For every 4 that you buy, generally you will get 1 who decides he's going to be a @#$! He will harass, chase, bite and bully every other fish in the tank. Unless you get really unlucky and end up with 3 like that. (It's happened before, LOL) Also when Angels get larger they will eat small fish they can fit in their mouths such as small tetra. I would say pass on them for now and if you're still keen after a few months experience you can look at adding some, also if you get tetra early on then that will give them some time to grow so they will be less likely to get eaten.. that said, my angels haven't touched any of my fish, ever.

I've never had any tank take 6 weeks to cycle, what I recommend is running the tank with water + conditioner, heater and filter running for 3 days to a week and slowly adding small numbers of fish each week with minimal feeding over the first 3 weeks. I would never recommend that anyone starts out with tetra, they are not a hardy cycling fish. Livebearers such as platys, mollies, swordtails etc are better suited to this and I've never had an issue cycling a tank with Betta(s) in it. Bettas seem to handle cycling tanks pretty well (not the fancy shmancy imports though). If you want to come up with a list of fish you like we can help you sort out what will be suitable and the order in which to add them. :)

[SiameseFightingFist]

Firstly, it's best to establish who you trust, and where you get your information from.

I am tending to trust a specialist betta forum like this, to be honest.

The second LFS I will happily stand with and talk to for hours! He's right into the fish, and bloody clever....AND knows what he's talking about..... go visit Subscape Aquarium in Richmond if you're near by.

Thanks, I might actually drop by on Saturday. I looked them up Google maps, they are a walk-in store, right?

For a bit more info on Angelfish, they're the sort of fish that have a LOT of personality. For every 4 that you buy, generally you will get 1 who decides he's going to be a @#$! He will harass, chase, bite and bully every other fish in the tank. Unless you get really unlucky and end up with 3 like that. (It's happened before, LOL) Also when Angels get larger they will eat small fish they can fit in their mouths such as small tetra. I would say pass on them for now and if you're still keen after a few months experience you can look at adding some, also if you get tetra early on then that will give them some time to grow so they will be less likely to get eaten.. that said, my angels haven't touched any of my fish, ever.

The Angelfish sound like goldfish, they'll eat anything small enough to fit in their mouths. I'm not sure I understand why the Dummies book recommended Angelfish (and tetras) as suitable tank mates with the betta now...

I've never had any tank take 6 weeks to cycle, what I recommend is running the tank with water + conditioner, heater and filter running for 3 days to a week and slowly adding small numbers of fish each week with minimal feeding over the first 3 weeks. I would never recommend that anyone starts out with tetra, they are not a hardy cycling fish. Livebearers such as platys, mollies, swordtails etc are better suited to this and I've never had an issue cycling a tank with Betta(s) in it. Bettas seem to handle cycling tanks pretty well (not the fancy shmancy imports though). If you want to come up with a list of fish you like we can help you sort out what will be suitable and the order in which to add them.

Thanks for that advice Yan, it makes a difference to hear from people this way as opposed to reading from a book. I wouldn't have known about tetras being less hardy too. I haven't really come up with a list of fish, my initial plan was to have a big enough tank with a couple of bettas (as per advice from that betta book and hence I jumped on a 90L tank) and then to fill in the rest with whatever fish are compatible with the betta and its tank environment. I wasn't looking to clog up the tank, just a few sparse fish. Maybe a small shoal-type variety (eg. 10 little tetras) and one or two bigger fish for balance. It sounds like I have a lot more research to do.

After checking out your photo of your tank I went out an internet romp and have now discovered the 'Walstad' method. That is looking very very interesting. That's what you've got set up in your tank in the photo isn't it?

[SiameseFightingFist]

I've bought a 50L tank too earlier today! Another one that comes with its own built-in filter and pump in the top lid. I figured I could use this as a potential hospital or emergency tank, just in case. Or if I may be tempted to do it up and put a male betta in it with some tetras much later when I've gotten the hang of it.

[SiameseFightingFist]

Alright, I couldn't help it. After a month of reading and learning as much as I can about aquarium-keeping and buying a 90L and 50L tank, last Friday I finally jumped and got a couple of starter fish to get going. There's only so much reading and non-practical prep I can do before actually getting some fish and getting hands on.

I ended up getting a couple of black widow tetras which the LFS kept in a coldwater tank, they said the black widows were coldwater fish that were adaptable for tropical conditions. By chance I was able to drop by another LFS on the weekend who offered me 30% off for a heater so I jumped on that and installed it in my tank, the black widows look much happier in warmer waters. I note that many websites describe them as tropical fish that can adapt to slightly colder temps (ie. the opposite from the impression that the first LFS gave me).

I'm also aware that black widows are not recommended tank companions for male bettas with long fins. Are they also not advised for the shorter fin female bettas? If not, I may set up the 50L to house a male betta and some betta-friendly tetras at a later date.

The reason why bettas came to mind when I was looking to set up a tank is because I have vague memories of someone in my extended family owning and running an aquarium when I was really young, and siamese fighting fish was the big thing that they had. So I remember seeing a lot of them when I was really young.

We've pretty much covered the cycling thing - have a look at this thread: http://ausaqua.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=12298&st=0&p=135887&hl=cycling&fromsearch=1&#entry135887

I read through the entire thread and it's looks like pretty much everyone saying: "Don't do what I do cos I'm doing it wrong, but..."

You should do a little bit of research into lights for plants now.

The tank I bought has four tube lights installed, two white lights and two pinks. As I understand it after looking it up on the net, the white and pink combination is to aid plant growth by simulating sunlight. And the plants need about 12 hours of light per day. Hope I've got that right.

I've never had any tank take 6 weeks to cycle, what I recommend is running the tank with water + conditioner, heater and filter running for 3 days to a week and slowly adding small numbers of fish each week with minimal feeding over the first 3 weeks. I would never recommend that anyone starts out with tetra, they are not a hardy cycling fish. Livebearers such as platys, mollies, swordtails etc are better suited to this and I've never had an issue cycling a tank with Betta(s) in it.

I bought some bio bacterial solution bottles to go with the black widows. The LFS said they were good hardy starter fish, I didn't realise until later that they were a type of tetra too, I note you recommended that tetras are not good starter fish.

Today was the third day in the life of my new tank, I did some tests and found the pH to be between 7.2 - 7.6, which seems to be on the basic side, ammonia to be just above 0 (but not quite the next 0.25ppm reading on the colour chart), no nitrites, but roughly 10ppm of nitrates. I've done a couple of water changes over the past couple of days to keep things under control. I've also started adding a bit of water conditioner salts. I didn't realise freshwater aquariums needed salt... but the LFS says so and the packet says so.... and the internet kind of says so...

The black widows seem to be doing ok to my inexperienced eyes, they're swimming around the planted plants (I've got some anubias, vals, and another one that look like vals but with a stiff stem) and playing in the down current flowing from the filter.

They don't seem to be eating very much though, but I don't think it's because they don't have an appetite. Everytime I drop some food in there (which isn't often, to control ammonia/nitrite build up), they catch a few small bits but they seem to visually 'miss' most of the food which then just settles on the gravel and left untouched overnight.

I was under the impression that the mollies and platys were not good tank mates for the bettas? Also the swordtails I read somewhere grow to a considerable size and so would outgrow my 90L tank? Otherwise I'd love to some a couple, I really like the jet black body and straight but flowing tails.

If the water chemistry readings look fine over the next couple of days (ie. by Day 5 to Day 7), I want to get one or two more black widows to join the two that I already have. I read that they're a shoaling-type fish and I really should have at least six in there.

Edited September 26, 2011 by SiameseFightingFist

[DenningA.Rajit]

May I also add that take your time with the introduction of new fishes especially if it is a new cycled tank.

I personally think by giving the tank to settle, let say about a week or two with only a few fishes i.e. 3/4 fishes will help to feed the good bacteria enough ammonia to help them grow.

This will help you and your tank as the waste produced by the bacteria will be used by the plants as food.

Also, keep the ph around 7.2 - 7.6 as doesn't put too much stress on the fish and plants. I notice when i started this hobby, my ph was 6.0 - 6.3. Most of my plants struggled to keep their foliage green because the water was too acidic for them. Since then, my plants looks greener and the fishes in it looks more active and vibrant in colour.

Consider some sponge filter down the track as it will compliment your inbuilt filter system. It gives another area where good bacteria can grow to help you keep your water cleaner longer, which means less water change.

When doing water changes, I normally do once a week if it is new tank and continue to do it for one or two months, then once a fortnight once all plants are growing well i.e. new shoots and fish eating well.

Hope this help as well.

[SiameseFightingFist]

Thanks drajit82! I've only got 2 black widows in there at the moment, I hope to get another one or two in the next couple of days if the readings look stable. After that, maybe another two sometime in the second week to make up the minimum of six that's recommended for these shoaling fish.

7.2 - 7.6 is good? That's great, I thought I had to try and get it down to neutral 7.0 (but I wouldn't know how to move the pH yet, I don't have any pH liquids from the LFS but I do have one of those oxyshells, I'll leave that to one side for now.

As for filters, I think I already do have a sponge filter. It's the white thick filter, is that right? I've got that, I've also got a black filter, and ceramic noodles. I haven't exactly worked out how the filter system works in the tank, the filter tray doesn't seem to fit properly with the ceramic noodles in place so I've taken out the filter tray.

Last night I saw some little white dots floating in the filter compartment. This morning, it looked like the little white dots have increased tenfold.... I have no idea what those things are. I've removed as many as I can, I'll try to post photos when I get home tonight.

[melbournebetta]

Fist,

You're entering the world of fish keeping WAYYYY more elegantly than I did - I just bought fish, THEN a tank, THEN did the research on how to keep them alive. (idiot) I went through plenty of fish as a teen... those poor goldies!!

Stabalizing your Ph is actually easy - there's a powder called carbonate hardness powder that you can buy from most larger LFS, and it buffers the ph wherever you'd like.

The ph range for betta is broad, but is best when it's stable (same with water temp)

I keep mine at 7 cos thats the powder I buy, my tap water is super soft.... so I just add it to every water change and bob's your aunty.

x

[SiameseFightingFist]

I have one of those oxyshells, would that do the trick? I'm a little unsure because as I understand it, the water conditioner salts contain some kind of bicarbonate too doesn't it? Does that mean that adding the water conditioner salts to my tank which was already around 7.6 would make it go even more basic?

Also, about white little spots I saw in my tank, an internet search suggests that it may be zebra snail eggs... what the hell....

I just bought fish, THEN a tank, THEN did the research on how to keep them alive.

I can't imagine how that works!! Fish then the tank?

[Yanagi]

Sorry, I totally forgot about this thread. I'm terrible at replying, hehe.. I'll try to comment on what I can, sorry if it's a bit scattered. I'm typing my thoughts as I scroll through.

I don't use any particular method with my tanks and certainly not the walstad method. I'm more of a 'this requires little maintenance and basic light, shove it in the tank!!' kind of person, LOL.

Black Widow Tetras come from cooler waters I believe, but not COLD water. No tetra should bother with short finned fish (female bettas or male plakats).

12 Hours of light a day is generally too much for the majority of tanks, stick to 8 hours a day.

Adding salt to an aquarium is just simulating (most) fishes natural environment by adding back electrolytes and minerals that tap water lacks. It's also a pretty good preventative of a few illnesses and will aid in wound recovery at a higher dose rate.

In case the LFS didn't tell you, you should take the rubber band off any plants you got and spread the stems apart to allow for growth and adequate light to the bottom of the plant.

If they aren't eating, don't feed them. Let them starve for a few days, it's not going to hurt them. It may also be they don't like the food you're offering, find out what the LFS was feeding them.. I've had many customers come back after switching from a 'premium' brand of food and say they won't eat the supermarket rubbish.. Well of course not. You wouldn't want Mcdonalds after eating gourmet food, would you? lol

Mollies and Platys make fine tank mates for bettas. Maybe not the longer finned ones, but they are absolutely fine for girls. From memory my veiltail male absolutely hated the mollies he was 'forced' to live with in a 4ft tank but they didn't bother him. Fish will vary.

Definitely work your way up to at least 6 Black Widows to make them happy. You can add more a week or two after you got the first lot (sorry not keeping track of dates). I would however buy them from a shop that is keeping them in tropical temperatures already.

Your pH is fine, don't mess with it.

By sponge filter drajit82 is referring to a secondary filter made of sponge that is air operated. What you're referring to is just filter sponge/foam/floss whatever the heck you want to call it. I'll make no comment other than I don't like to clutter my own tanks with extra filters unless it's required (ie heavily stocked) but it doesn't hurt to have them.

I'm not sure what these white dots you're referring to could be. Are they moving around in the water or are they on the sides of the filter casing? Worm shaped perhaps?

Salt doesn't (or shouldn't...) mess with your pH at all.

[melbournebetta]

Listen to Yan, she knows lots, and has gotten me out of more trouble than she probably realizes!

x

[girlz0r]

MELBOURNIANSSSSSSSSSSSSSs yay!

It is encouraging to see you do research before turning your house into a potential fish traffiking hotspot

nah, it's awesome. looking forward to some preety pictures!

[SiameseFightingFist]

Black Widow Tetras come from cooler waters I believe, but not COLD water. No tetra should bother with short finned fish (female bettas or male plakats).

I'm not sure what these white dots you're referring to could be. Are they moving around in the water or are they on the sides of the filter casing? Worm shaped perhaps?

Thanks for giving me peace of mind about everything from the pH to food to plant lighting hours, it's good to know I'm on the right track.

I'll look into the sponge filter thing, it'll be good to know what other options there are out there. I'm lucky in that my first tank (this current one) came with lights & filter included, at least.

I checked with the LFS, as far as I'm aware, they were feeding them the same fish flakes I'm giving them. The difference was though, he showed me how he fed them but when he walked up to the tank and before he even reached for the food, the fish recognised him and started crowding at that end of the tank in anticipation of food already. Maybe my fish will get used to me in time.

Re: untying the plants - the first LFS didn't tell me and I planted it straight into the gravel as is when I got home. The second LFS did tell me and when I got home I untied the bunch. I guess in hindsight I should've known myself...

Re the white dots, I took some photos and will start another thread about them.

When you mentioned 'plakat' I had no idea what they were, I looked them up on the net but as far as I know, they're the Thai name for the betta, is that right? In any case after hearing your advice I got one! I took some photos and will post in another thread too.

Listen to Yan, she knows lots, and has gotten me out of more trouble than she probably realizes!

I get the impression that you know a hell of a lot too...

MELBOURNIANSSSSSSSSSSSSSs yay!

It is encouraging to see you do research before turning your house into a potential fish traffiking hotspot

nah, it's awesome. looking forward to some preety pictures!

Hi! I didn't want any fish to die on account of my unpreparedness, that's all. I had (and still have) dogs and cats as pets so these fish are not my first pets I guess. Fish seems to be a lot more sensitive and demanding with their specific needs and general care.