Betta Breeders Co-op

[Bettarazzi]

For a little while now I've had an idea bubbling away in my head about creating some kind of betta breeders co-op. The purpose of the co-op is to give the hobbyist breeder a vehicle for engaging professionally with wholesalers and retailers. This would hopefuly allow the hobbyist to dispose of excess fish in an organised manner. Now this idea is not entirely developed yet. But it's probably worth opening the discussion so that we can perhaps co-operatively come up with solutions to some of the issues.

The experience for the wholesaler/retailer should be no different to what they have with a commercial hatchery. The only difference is that instead of a single breeder producing thousands of fish, we are many breeders each producing small numbers. This is not intended to be a means for the hobbyist to turn into a commercial breeder. You're not going to be able to replace your day job with this. If you were really serious about replacing your income then you'd have to produce fish in the thousands and if that's what you were doing you wouldn't need the co-op. You would deal directly with the wholesalers. This is simply to allow the hobbyist to get rid of more fish than they can by simply selling to other hobbyists.

Some of the things I think wholesalers/retailers are looking for:

- consistency of supply

- consistency of quality

- fish in good health

- variety of colour

Let's assume we won't have enough fish collectively to satisfy the wholesalers. My understanding is that AI import something like 4000 bettas a week. So let's put wholesalers aside for a bit. The way I envisage it working with retailers could be something like this. We each breed as we normally would, according to our interests. There would need to be enough of us to cover several colour and finnage varieties. We agree on the pricing structure. Each member of the group needs to approach their local shops. We meet periodically, eg once a month, to swap the number and variety of fish we each need to service our clients. Now I can think of more problems than solutions. But let's discuss it and see what we can come up with.

[sunnylass]

I've actually been supplying to a few local pet shops for a number of years now, and it gives me one outlet to move my fish on. The only problem is the petshops can get bettas from the wholesalers dirt cheap, and I mean DIRT cheap, so prices they will pay is not high.

[Fletch]

I have two local FS that but my fish. The biggest concern from there perspective is healthy fish. Most will NOT buy from the public for this reason. Also, I have been told that most peole approaching these stores want retail price less about 10% which is totally unreasonable.

Also, the two shops I frequent don't sell that many Betta but are the first to admit they don't stock many other than VT and CT. Saying that, both have taken my CT as the quality is better than they normally get there hands on.

I think the main issue will be supplying quality/healthy fish. Only takes one person to supply not up to scratch fish and everyone involved will suffer.

[kermadum]

I've been thinking of a similar idea Bettarazzi, though I think that it would need to be a very structured arrangement in order for it to be attractive to retail outlets. And because I'm a bit of a control freak, I don't think a co-op without a central figure will work.

I think the way to make this sort of thing successful is to include a point of difference. I think the most valuable way to look at this in the marketplace is as a boutique wholesaler, because I think that's how the retailers are going to look at it. So in my view, the central question that needs to be asked is "What can this offer the retailer, that no body else does?" I haven't really come up with an answer to that question yet.

I think the biggest problem is quality control, how do you deal with that? I totally agree with Busman, one person lets the team down and the whole thing falls apart. All breeders should be subject to quality approval by a central figure or board before they can sell through the co-op, but who does that? My feeling is that the best way to do this is for one person or organization to deal with it and if that person is not going to be paid, then perhaps the way to do it is to structure it into one of the existing aquatic societies (and perhaps breeders wanting to be involved in the breeders co-op scheme pay a supplementary fee to the society, or a percentage of sales). The other option is to offer someone a cut of sales in order to compensate them for the time spent doing admin and quality control work. I also think they should be the point of contact for retailers etc. I think it's unrealistic to expect individual breeders to be able to speak, and make decisions on the spot on behalf of the co-op and other breeders, if they are asked.

I have plenty of other musings but they are largely practical issues rather than bigger ground roots structural questions. I'd be more interested to see what other people think before I get my rave on.

[Fletch]

I was offered $2 each for my CT wholesale. Didn't sell them to that shop. I found two that pay me fair money and now I will supply him with both my fish and Shadohs extras as well. This is an aquarium I have been seeing for many years so trust is already there.

[les]

OK Kermadum what it offers LFS is a place for them to source Bettas that they cannot get redaly from the wholesaler there are lots of people asking at LFS for different typs and there told cant get them. if the CO-OP makes a picktorial disply of varietys on hand that members have and these are displayed at partisapating LFS along with state club joining forms then orders can be placed to your central CO-OP contact who then places the orders with the CO-OP members who can fill them. it would mean the central contact for the CO-OP would have to be kept up to date with what every one had on hand and back orders placed with breeders to catch up. how dos that sound the LFS do not have to order these fish and see if they sale they order them as customers ask for them through the posters and they get there markup as a comision on the sale all that they have to do is hand over the fish

CHEERS LES

Edited March 21, 2011 by les

[Billphil]

I have had my LFS lament about the absence of QUALITY betta males as most of what they obtain from the wholesaler are the ordinary fish. Also what the LFS complains about is the absence of females of the various betta types. People want females when they are buying their QUALITY betta male but there are none available and the LFS loses sales.

Also what the LFS would be interested in is a ongoing supply of wild type Bettas. The LFS would not buy them a couple of years ago (they are boring dull drab fish) but now they caannot get enough of them.

I would definitely be interested in the Co-op idea

[Bettarazzi]

Maybe we need to do some kind of study to get an idea of what the need and demand is. I get the feeling that the average LFS is not particularly interested in sourcing better quality. If there were really enough demand, the wholesalers would try to meet it. But I haven't really talked to any shops recently. What do other people think? How interested do you think your LFS would be?

[melbournebetta]

Definitely an interesting proposition Michael, and by the sounds of it a viable step forward in bridging the gap between the specialist breeders and the customers that don't mind parting with more than $6.95 for a sick VT from the LFS

As-side from this being my main motivation for getting into breeding quality HM Betta Splenden, it also taps into each of our network of local aquariums & enables a greater reach for sales.

Agreed, it really requires a core group to operate Quality Control and the business-head of things... (: and definitely needs a shiny website and logo *grin*

I have a wallet full of business cards from around Victoria of interested businesses that would purchase numbers of males & females from quality spawns, even on a periodical basis (however none of these discussions have come to fruition, as my spawns are only 1 & 6 weeks old)

Buying and selling Betta Splenden (Specifically, as they're my focus) and others through a co-op could become a more protected outlet for excess 'stock' offers both the retailer and the customer "something nobody else can" Australian-bred fish that are more hardy to our water conditions, and hopefully bred towards IBC and the new CO-Op's Quality standards.

That's the kind of fish I would have no hesitation parting with pretty pennies for.

[rojak]

with batchtesting almost going into action, I think demand for local breed betta will be somehow higher? maybe you guys should really organize something and make sure the local breeder is capapble of providing different stock to what wholesaler already has? :cheer:

[GoldenGirl13]

I'm just going to sit down here in Tassie and cry (

[Bettarazzi]

I wonder how many breeders we would need in order for this to be really viable. I'm guessing at a minimum we would need 3 breeders of each for HM, CT and PK, plus another 3-5 for wilds. And they would have to be covering all the colour varieties (or species in the case of wilds). And I'm not even thinking about a post-batch testing scenario. I'm just thinking of what the co-op would need to be able to supply simply so that shops will have a reason to buy from us.

If we were to start a co-op in Melbourne say in 2 months we might be able to supply copper, royal blue, turquoise, lavender halfmoons and that would be about it. No crowntails, no plakats and very few wilds.

[kermadum]

Is there a reason you would limit yourself to Melbourne? The bigger your reach, the more stock you can pull, and it's only an overnight courier to get fish from quite a few places. Busman has Crowntails in Brisbane, we've got a variety of HM's from different breeders in Sydney. Understandably infrastructure is easier on smaller levels, but without the critical mass that you get from a broader reach are you going to be able to showcase a strong enough stock base to achieve what you want?

[Fletch]

I think you need to focus on being a good alternative when fish are available. You can then notify them of what is available when you have it. You could never cover all bases.

[melbournebetta]

To begin with it seems like a Melbourne co-op is a viable start (to get the ball rolling)

I'd be interested in contributing my breeding efforts, as I'm now raising spawns with much higher success rates.... and only wish to keep minimal breeding stock.

Along with various local breeders with a focused specialty, it would be great to pool everyone's national networks, and all of our breeding interests.

Needless to say the batch-testing scare has probably got us all in some state of mild panic.... but this move toward a co-op would be a positive response to the situation we are about to face.

I wonder if a quick poll of what we have currently and what we are interested in breeding towards is worthwhile? (I am considering indulging in a last moment aquabid frenzy to broaden the gene pool and types of betta splenden HM)

As for the co-op; I would be happy to provide a website that allows either a point-of-sale for individual fish, and/or a gallery of the fish that are available for sale via the co-op.... this would also allow each breeder to access his/her own page (password protected) to update what is and isn't available, with images/movies/text.

'Razzi, I will have a bit of a chat with you about this at the ASV meet on Thursday.

-Ness

[Fletch]

That sound great Ness. Problem I see, using myself as example, I join co-op then supply direct to customer as I am in Brisbane. Customer orders twenty fish, I supply six nice ones, ten ok ones and four are dead on arrival. Everyone that has any association to co-op suffers.

Now I hope everyone realizes I wouldn't do this but it would be done sometime by someone. What protection does the customer and co-op have against this. I believe this is the greatest hurdle as I got fish from Adam overnight no worries so delivery is not an issue.

[Bettarazzi]

I have trouble seeing past the logistical problems of trying to manage moving fish around the different states. Fish from interstate would have to be housed prior to distribution. That's why I was thinking that there would need to be local co-ops. We could leverage on the co-op "model", ie the different states could all operate in the same manner. And if we were actually going to form a co-op business entity it could certainly be a single entity that operated nationally. But I wasn't thinking that we would be sending fish back and forth. To do that would require the co-op to act more like a centralised wholesaler. There's nothing wrong with that but who has the time and space to do that? I dunno. Happy to hear ideas.

Also want to make the point that I don't see this as "my" thing. It's OUR thing. A true co-op has no leader or owner. All members of the co-op have equal say.

[Fletch]

I Was thinking along the lines as one point of contact for customers and many breeders supplying direct. This would work both locally and interstate.

[Bettarazzi]

Were you thinking that the single contact would hold the fish for an amount of time? Or do the breeders supply fish in bags and the fish stay in the bags until they get to the shops? So breeders would only drop-off fish no more than one day before they're due to be delivered to the shops? Or do we make the "single contact" an employee of the co-op? And then hire a warehouse that we fit out to hold the fish? The co-op is starting to sound expensive.

[kermadum]

Could the individual breeders not ship directly to the shop after being contacted by the Co-op Coordinator with an order?

[Fletch]

Ok, my thoughts.

A shop decides he wants some fish, logs onto website and sees what's available and where. A order is placed through website and a administrator passes order onto breeder.

Breeder then supplies fish direct to shop (cost paid by who?). Shop pays co-op, takes cut (%) and pays breeder. Co-ops cut to cover costs and administration.

[rojak]

I wonder how many breeders we would need in order for this to be really viable. I'm guessing at a minimum we would need 3 breeders of each for HM, CT and PK, plus another 3-5 for wilds. And they would have to be covering all the colour varieties (or species in the case of wilds). And I'm not even thinking about a post-batch testing scenario. I'm just thinking of what the co-op would need to be able to supply simply so that shops will have a reason to buy from us.

If we were to start a co-op in Melbourne say in 2 months we might be able to supply copper, royal blue, turquoise, lavender halfmoons and that would be about it. No crowntails, no plakats and very few wilds.

i think it's better to do it on this forum, using classified section.

Edited March 29, 2011 by rojak

[melbournebetta]

'Razzi,

It's an exciting prospect, it would be good to have a look at some other co-op business models if we can find them?

I have to agree with Busman, the operation needs a central contact ...and at some point there will have to be an entity or group doing a weekly tally of supply & demand, along with several hours of arranging dispatch and web maintenance.... if this originally is volunteered time once the co-op is established, that is expected, but there would need to be considerations for remuneration at some point...... if it were me, there is a finite amount the goodness of my heart would stretch.

But obviously we'll be making squillions within days - so that shouldn't be an issue.

Research time!

-Ness

[shadoh]

I think it will be a great venture once logistics and quality control are sorted. I'm sure that if we have a central person or website for stores to contact, there will be someone in the Co-op somewhere with something they will want.

Once my breeding pairs arrive, I'll be breeding HMPK's, HM's, and CT's

[melbournebetta]

@ Busman/Razzi

Fees would need to be in place at some point - in the form of an annual subscription/membership of the Co-Op.

Breeders would need to somehow demonstrate that they can QC their own stock

(By way of photos of EXACT fish people are ordering etc - just means you need to master the MACRO lense on your camera & place codes within the photo so ordering is clear)

Breeders are responsible for the transport of their own fish direct to the LFS who placed the order

Fish that arrive DOA are replaced or refunded

Transport for fish could include personal delivery or Fastaway couriers (interstate/statewide)

If one LFS orders 4 coppers from me, 5 turqs from 'Razzi and 3 Red CT's from Bus, they may all arrive at separate times... so a unified order form would need to be in place so the store knows which of the order he/she has just received, and what's yet to come.

Standardized pricing for certain fish - agreed to upon by Co-op members annually.

As for billing - LFS might not wish to pay each 3 breeders for his hypothetical order of 4 Coppers / 5 Turqs /3 CT - so payments for orders are Pro Forma and paid before the delivery, direct to CO-OP - it then takes it's cut, pays it's slaves and minions, and passes on the payment to breeder.

Seriously... I need to look at a business model... but here are some ideas that might safe-guard the operation.

-Ness

......Minimum order numbers from each breeder would ensure postage costs don't kill the profit (accounted for within the price of each fish)

Edited March 29, 2011 by melbournebetta