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Everything posted by Brenton

  1. I'm so bad at keeping these logs up to date. Took out a dozen of the biggest two weeks ago. All female except for one male. They were placed into a separate growout to allow the smaller ones a chance to catch up a bit. Solo male jarred yesterday due to being picked on by his sisters - photo coming. (I took some shots last night and forgot to bring my card to work to post it up...) He's not too bad. First caudal ray is short leading to rounding, but the last caudal ray is nice. He's not balanced though, the anal is still too long, and the caudal is a little small for my liking. Webbing reduction is almost non-existent (except in the dorsal) and so he wont be continuing on in the program at this point in time...unless I'm hard up for male choices - again...looking for a true plakat with decent webbing reduction to progress to F3. Still at least 40 or so in the growout, plus the 11 girls in the separate growout. I need this spawn to finish cooking so I can utilize the growouts for my light bodies spawns...
  2. Brenton

    Fry Size

    F2 - BJT20140607 - Week 16 (Last measurement for these guys) Mr Big: 3.5cm (biggest male has been jarred, a little damaged from his sisters, but he should be okay. Will see about some photos tonight - from what little I could see last evening...he is very close to a full HMPK in caudal spread) Runt: 1.7cm (seriously considering removing this measurement from requirements) Average: 2.8cm F2 - 20140902a - Recessive Line - week 3 A few more deaths, so my run of die offs has begun - still lots swimming throughout the water column so I'm not to upset - will still have plenty to choose from. Intending to move these guys to new quarters next week or the week after (dependant on time available). Mr Big: 0.9cm Average: 0.6cm F1 - 20140902b - White DTHMPK Line - week 3 For the first time ever, I can make out the double caudal lobe on these little fellas - very cute. Mr Big: 0.9cm Average: 0.5cm Edit - I did try to get some photos but all I end up with is blurred shots and the caudal become see-through under flash so no hope of showing dual lobes...maybe in a few more weeks.
  3. Speaking of Razzi projects...hows the racks in the Fishroom going?
  4. My eyes aren't great with small things so it was nice to be able to make out two distinct caudal lobes on my fry tonight - cute! I'll see about some photos next weekend...maybe...
  5. Sorry guys - been having issues with my neck recently which has kept me away from the computer. Maddie makes an excellent point - a lot of genetics is still either unknown or still only a theory. A lot of the information around needs to be taken with a healthy dose of scepticism. A fair bit of the information on the net is just wrong. But, there are a few really good places with articles written by experienced breeders. Here (obviously), Betta Territory, and Betty Splendens to name a few of the better ones...but the godfather of Betta Genetics is Dr Gene A Lucas. A great deal of his work was done 40+ years ago, but most of it still holds true and all of the basic concepts, and structures, have been proven scientifically. You can get hold of his articles through the IBC. They do a genetics CD package you can buy through the IBC shop...it can be a dry read and I'm happy to look something up for you if you prefer - and we have other great members like Paul and Jarrod (Ness, Michael and others) who can also help
  6. Brenton


    Rugs on the floor would help, and you can take them with you if you move. Wardrobe is cool - like a mini room - get some Velcro dots and stick up polystyrene on the inside of the robe. When it comes time to move, no mess left behind And stick some polystyrene to the tanks outside the robe to keep them stable. The insulation will keep the heat in during winter, but you want it to dissipate in summer, so make sure you can remove anything you put on. Get some snap lock sandwich bags and fill them with treated water and put them in the freezer - you may need them in summer to cool the fellas down when it gets hot. A pedestal fan blowing across the water surface helps as well. Make some tank lids out of flyscreen so you can still cover the tanks (remember these guys jump).
  7. Brenton


    You have to draw a line somewhere, or you could just keep adding a couple of days to be sure. May as well stop at 10 Congrats and well done!
  8. Edit: Whoops - sorry - this got a lot longer than I thought it was going to be.... Like Razzi said - things arent overly complicated if you stick to the Mendellian principles and stick to asking a single question of each punnet square. Figuring out what is dominant, recessive, impartially penetrative, etc gets a little more difficult if you're trying to remember it all - so don't - write it down somewhere and refer back when necessary - it will sink in eventually. So - for red, actually for all betta genetics, we refer back to what is normal in the wild Betta. Whatever isn't normally found in the wild, we call a mutation. With red, in wilds, the gene is referred to as Nr - which actually stands for non-red, but phenotypically (what it looks like), shows as red. If the trait is written with a capital, it means it is considered dominant (in most cases). So the dominant colour of red, is shown as Nr, and if paired with another red fish, the fry would end up with NrNr - so genotypically (what the actual genes say regardless of what it looks like) the fry would be red. Now red is one of the more understood of the genes, but at the same time, the more you know, the more complicated it becomes. Affecting red is the genes: Er = Extended red, which causes the red to spread over the fish, much like the Spread iridescent (Si) gene which affects the iridescent layer. Dominant bl = blond is less black pigment and causes the red to look brighter - recessive red-gain = I don't know the alleles for this trait but it shows up as the fish starting with very little, if any, red present and it gets redder as it ages. red-loss = I don't know this one either, but it is the opposite of the red-gain gene nr1 = mutates the red so it doesn't show up as red - phenotypically shows as a yellow fish - recessive nr2 = mutates the red so it doesn't show up as red - phenotypically shows as an orange fish - recessive nr3&4 - these are currently being talked about in the greater Betta community - I don't know a lot about them. - recessive An example of a punnet square: Male and female are siblings (F1) who come from a red and a yellow parent. We would work the squares as follows - P0 (parents) Dad - NrNr Mum - nr1nr1 Nr Nr nr1 Nrnr1 Nrnr1 nr1 Nrnr1 Nrnr1 So to figure out the square, we line up a column (vertical) with a row (horizontal), one allele at a time. So dad's red traits are depicted across the top and shown as NrNr because we are pretty sure he is red gentotypically (we trust the breeder we got him from - this is why it's important to keep your records straight) Mum is phenotypically (looks) yellow, so we know she is nr1nr1 (carrying two copies of the recessive trait). But all of their fry come up as Nrnr1, so they will all look red, but carry a single recessive gene of the mutation nr1 from mum. So F1 Dad - Nrnr1 Mum - Nrnr1 Nr nr1 Nr NrNr Nrnr1 nr1 Nrnr1 nr1nr1 So we end up with: 50% of the fry Nrnr1 - so they are like their parents...they look red, but carry a single mutated gene. We call these pheno reds. 25% of the fry NrNr - these will look no different to the 50% above, and we wouldn't know they were geno reds unless you breed them and didn't get anything other than red fry. 25% of the fry nr1nr1 - pheno and geno yellow Now this is all in a perfect world where we know exactly what the genes involved are. But this is not true with Betta. They have been cross bred, interbred, and mucked about genetically for over a hundred years, and genetics involves all 26000 alleles within the fish. Some are dominant over others, some are only partially dominant, or partially penetrative. The combinations are truly mind boggling. But go back to what we started with - a single question, using simple Medellin principles. Is a single trait dominant and how to display it in written form... If, and it is likely, the Cambodian trait shows up in the reds, then it is shown as cc (recessive trait), and we would go back to the parents and add c to their genetic record, and to the genetic records of the spawns between them and this one where it showed up. And then there's marble which can throw a spanner in any mechanism. And can show up at any given time. Marble is partially dominant (according to current theories) and is shown as Mb. But it is also partially penetrative and show will not always show up in all fry - but it is still carried, and so may show up down the generation line. You've heard the story how a trait skips a generation? This is an example of partial penetration. Marble is everywhere and very hard to breed out. It can be done (in theory), but it would take many generations of very careful selected breeding...and even then... But, again, like Raz said, al lot of the genetics are covered in different threads throughout the forum - a lot of reading but you don't need to read everything at once...back to what we started with - a single question.... And if you're still not sure - ask - we don't bite and we are happy to keep throwing up examples and trying to help you in your learning - and we learn as well because there is nobody on this forum who knows everything about these little fishes
  9. Got nothing to do with it...I need to split my jars occasionally otherwise the cultures will spoil - it's a need and you'd all be doing me a favour, or I end up with more than the eight jars I currently have on the go...
  10. got all excited then for a second, I thought Yan was back... Plants - calling what I do aquascaping is a long stretch of the bow, but for what it's worth - Anubias are my staple plant. I have some peacock moss, but everything else are silk to add extra breakage of line of sight. I have a number of different sorts of Anubias so it doesn't all look the same...but then the plants aren't in my tanks to look nice - just to use up some of the waste from the fish and provide shelter and somewhere to sleep
  11. Brenton


    As Raz said - insulate the tanks and check your temps throughout the day and evening...and if you happen to get up during the night for any reason, go ahead and pop in then too Is it your house or a rental? I ask as ceiling insulation is a big thing in keeping your Fishroom warm. Hot air rises and if there's no insulation in the roof, it will escape. Drafts under the door in or through the sides of the windows also needs to be addressed. Glass is a huge heat conductor, so as your room heats up, windows will let it straight out (or in during summer for the reverse problem of over heating). Shades a good, shutters a re better. At a minimum, cut a piece of polystyrene to insulate the window and tape it to block off drafts if need be (and you're not fussed about how it looks). Then insulate the tanks. Wrapping towels around and over the top of your tanks will quickly let you know if this will fix your fluctuating temp issues. If the towels work, then move to stick polystyrene to your tanks.
  12. Brenton


    Yep - excellent topic to be interested in - will keep you busy for many years to come As Raz asked - anything in particular or just genetics in general?
  13. Brenton

    Fry Size

    F2 - BJT20140607 - Week 15 (One more week of measurements for these guys) Mr Big: 3.4cm (good looking male - not huge webbing reduction though...must get a photo but the overhead light on this tank has gone...need a new globe) Runt: 1.7cm (if these guys don't get a hurry on over the next few weeks, I'll cull the five I have around this size) Average: 2.7cm F2 - 20140902a - Recessive Line - week 2 (tomorrow - yay, early for a change!) Starting to see a distinct separating of the masses now. Also starting to see a few die off. Most are the really small ones, but a couple of the bigger ones have succumbed too. The tank has now been filled. Still way too many of them to worry about the occasional dead one other than to suck them out as soon as I see them. Mr Big: 0.8cm Runt: 0.4cm Average: 0.6cm F1 - 20140902b - White DTHMPK Line - week 2 Looks exactly the same as the recessive line although not as many dead, and all those I have sucked out have been the smaller fellas.
  14. Brenton

    JLM05092014 F2

    Are they miniature sunglasses or possibly early showing of the Panda trait???
  15. Brenton

    JLM28082014 F2

    I've put a macro lens on the Xmas wish list and let all the family know....
  16. I've always got way too many jars of VE in the cupboard - don't be afraid to sing out if you ever need me to send any over to VB meets
  17. In my life...yes, anything too good to be true is always something to bite me in the butt...so we dream on without any expectation
  18. I know - it's quite daunting to have two big spawns at the same time...BBS factory working overtime and I'm still not sure if I'm producing enough...haven't seen many keel over yet (touch wood), so I'm taking that as a good sign. Siphoning is a bitch. I'm doing very little in the way of bottom cleaning (token efforts really), it's mainly just water changes and additions at this point...
  19. Brenton

    Fry Size

    Holy crap - it has been a while... F2 - BJT20140607 - Week 14 (I have photos of the intervening weeks - will have to go through them and sort out my measurements) Mr Big: 3.3cm (pulled the biggest 12 out and put them into their own tank - will look at jarring the males in the next week or so) Runt: 1.7cm (if these guys don't get a hurry on over the next few weeks, I'll cull the five I have around this size) Average: 2.6cm (These should now get a move on with the rehoming of the bigger guys into a separate growout) F2 - 20140902a - Recessive Line - week 1 vast majority are around 0.6cm but I noticed last night a few who look like they've only just begun free swimming (0.4cm). F1 - 20140902b - White DTHMPK Line - week 1 Looks exactly the same as the recessive line. With so many fry in both the new spawns, getting anything other than a guess-timate is difficult. My eyes are not very good anymore at picking up the small things, and the camera is useless at getting a focused shot at this point. Siphoning is a nightmare. A couple more weeks and I'll be separating the spawns and putting a max of 150 into different growouts (need to clean and prep my last growout currently housing spiders in my shed to give me four usable growouts, plus a few to remain in each spawn tank). That will put me a max capacity for the next few months.
  20. Brenton

    New here.

    Welcome to the forum - looking forward to the pics - we're all voyeurs here
  21. Ness may have the Colgate spawn but I think mine shall be the Dandruff spawn...
  22. My photography of week old fry sucks...my video capabilities aren't much better...
  23. Oh - it's all pie in the sky, dart in a board, type of planning. I've got no idea what I'm doing one day to the next as far as details go, but I'm good at big picture stuff If only someone would make me a CEO without me having to do all the hard work to get there....
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