Batch testing and wild bettas

188 posts in this topic

Posted

I am a nubie at Facebook and haven't even looked at getting a twitter happening yet.

between looking after the dog)poppy) & me falling down my front steps I haven't been able to

think straightblink.gif

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Posted

I wouldn't get too stressed about trying to get the Twibbon to work. While I would be personally encouraged if I saw hundreds of Facebook users sporting the Twibbon on their profile, it's fairly 'passive'. Without wanting to demean it's value (it has a powerful psychological value for me) Twibbon kinda falls into the "least you can do" bucket. Faced with the choice of spending an hour struggling with the technical problems of getting Twibbon to work or spending that hour picking up the telephone and having an old-fashioned chat with your local MP--I'd say call your MP.

Personally, I'm considering un-friending everyone on my Facebook that isn't wearing that Twibbon. There is NO OUTFIT that can't be enhanced with a little red fish!

http://twibbon.com/cause/SaveTheAusAquariumIndustry/Facebook

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Posted (edited)

From another forum.....Interesting if it's already here!!!

This is another thing to consider.

A similar problem was encountered with Prawns a few years ago.

BA decided to effectively ban imports of prawns into Australia fearing an outbreak of a viral disease called white spot (not the same as whitespot in fish).

However they had to ammend the ban when they found that it was already in Australia since they couldn't legislate against importation of a product on the grounds that it may have a disease, when the disease is already known to be in Australia

see the BA press release.

http://www.daff.gov.au/ba/ira/final-...ntine_measures

If the iridovirus was found to occurr in locally bred populations of the the fish in question, the same deal should apply. BA cannot legitimately enforce the effective ban as it would illegitimately create a barrier to trade .

obviously there is a lot more legality to be looked into, but perhaps this is why there has not been a comprehensive survey of locally bred stocks.

Edited by Rod

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Posted (edited)

That kinda fits in with Bec's idea somewhere above. She briefly mentioned these prawns and suggested us organising a test of fish... no one answered and I don't know myself, is it doable? I guess we'd need to find a scientist willing to do the tests

(prefarably someone with a good reputation) and also have to pay for them somehow... thoughts?

No one responded regarding my asking if its ok with everyone if I take the petition i got from someone to LFS. Just wondering primarily as someone above mentioned wording so are we wanting to do something particular? and how long should i ask to leave them there before collecting?

Edited by fishish

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Posted

and also have to pay for them somehow... thoughts?

I think this is going to be a big problem with taking further action, finding the funds and resources to make a legitimate appeal through whatever channel.

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Posted

Well this sums it all up

‘Federal agencies generally have a poor record of developing

effective consultation mechanisms with industry on the ground,

too often relying heavily on “formal” Canberra based consultative

mechanisms ... Few Government agencies have shown any sign of

understanding how best to interact with industry bodies, and as a

result are often deprived of valuable information.’ (Queensland

Farmers’ Federation submission, p. 10)

4.3.2 of the Beale Review.

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Posted

Perhaps circulating the idea somehow and perhaps some people with business' that will suffer from this may be interested in taking up the idea?.... don't know <_<

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Posted

Sorry fishish. I kinda took your question about the petition as rhetorical. Jodi has sent me her petition as well and I think we DO need to look at the wording.

This is the petition that Jodi has sent me. Fishish let me know if you have a different one.

Petition Summary and Background:

Within months after the Federal Election you may not be able to buy Livebearers,Cichlids and Gouramis. Most of the fish you buy are imported from overseas. There has been a report handed down from Biosecurity causing these changes and we believe it to be scientifically flawed and contains little Australian relevant research. Australia already has strict Quarantine regulations. To read the entire Biosecurity report please go to http://www.daff.gov.au/ba

Action Petitioned For:

We, the undersigned, are concerned citizens who urge our elected members of Parliament to act now to allow more time to answer the Bio security report which states that the imported ornamental fish have been declared a disease threat to Australia and to continue with the already adequate Quarantine regulations that are already in place.

My problem with the wording is that it is addressed to MPs but it asks them to do something which, if we believe Tony Burke, they don't have the power to do. Besides what would more time to answer Biosecurity achieve anyway? They reject all objections based on science.

What I'd like to know is the process after the current appeals process is over. What happens then? Does the Director of Quarantine then make a decision? Then what? It gets implemented? Or does it have to go to a Senate committee to be accepted? Does anyone know how we find this out and what the timelines are?

Once we know this we can then word the petition appropriate, decide on the timing for collecting signatures, and most importantly, who we petition and what we petition them to do. Appreciate others thoughts.

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Posted

its in the handbook Razzi...

IRA Handbook 2007 (2009 update) for anyone who wants to see what process should have been followed

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Posted

I've only had a quick skim through that handbook but it looks to me like we can't do anything. I dunno. I'm at a loss.

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Posted

Well after the appeals are over its up to the Dir Quarantine to make a determination - surely the politicians can get to the Director? The Director afterall is just a public servant (and possibly not a scientist) who will go along with anything that sounds plausible unless instructed otherwise by their employer... If Tony Burke can't influence the appeals process surely he can have a say on one of his 'staff'...

:dontknow:

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Posted

Ah yes, I read that very quickly when i got the petition Bettarazi and i seem to recal i thought the wording didn't quite hit the spot. So what will we do? as someone suggested above perhaps we could ask for permission to use the wording from the one online? or does someone want to volunteer to write one up? i rather don't have time at present myself.

just to put it out there, im living with a guy in his 6th year of a law degree. i doubt quarantine stuff is his area but if anyone ever has any question law procedure wise etc i could ask him and see if he happens to know...

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Posted

Tell your friend to get on here and join the fun! :D

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Posted

I'm so frustrated and annoyed I've gone back to tweet spamming Tony Burke. Soon he'll be begging for a new portfolio in the reshuffle. And I've started on my YouTube. I've done all the text elements. I just need to take a couple of video shots which I've already planned out in my head. The clip will finish with a call for viewers to send a message to Tony Burke's YouTube account. The messages won't be public but if enough people do it should annoy him quite a bit. And being a nuisance in his life seems to be all that's left.

This whole thing is so brainless. Once we are resigned to the fact that we can't import any more we're all just going to buy imported fish like crazy before it comes into force. And if it's true that bettas carry the virus, we'll all just be perpetuating it in our fishrooms. Batch testing will expand the problem not shrink it!

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Posted

Personally, I'm considering un-friending everyone on my Facebook that isn't wearing that Twibbon. There is NO OUTFIT that can't be enhanced with a little red fish!

http://twibbon.com/cause/SaveTheAusAquariumIndustry/Facebook

Ouch, I am now bedecked with the potential blood of 1000s of little bettas :blink:

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Posted

Ministers cannot influence government bodies, this principle is a fundamental part of the Westminster system of governing (well, officially anyway), however pressure on the minister is not wasted as most gov Dept's don't want to rankle their minister.

I still think showing that the virus already exists here is a good way to go. It is a precedent that obviously worked. If someone can find out the details of who and what costs are involved surely emails could be sent to businesses that are going to be impacted and the costs could be split by those wanting action. Heck, it could even be open to donations from avid enthusiasts.

Bec

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Posted

i doubt quarantine stuff is his area but if anyone ever has any question law procedure wise etc i could ask him and see if he happens to know...

Please don't impose on your friend in the midst of his studies. He won't know, he'll need to research it, and that will suck his time which I don't think is fair. For those who don't know, I have what you might call "a little legal experience" myself and I wouldn't know where to start ascertaining info this specific. For reasons I will not bore you with, I'm simply not in a position to provide legal advice regarding this at the moment.

I am frankly appalled that hobbyists are having to consider imposing on the goodwill of friends and gathering resources to pay for an expert opinion, when as we have all been parroting on Twitter there is a $450m industry whose collective livelihoods are at risk. What are those people doing in terms of financing that sort of activity? Wayne posed the question on Twitter whether a lawyer with interest in fish would be willing to undertake a class action - well, have the industry consulted someone like Slater & Gordon to see what can be done? I think of how the racing industry reacted to the equine influenza virus and got the results they wanted...

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Posted

Does anyone know what actions the industry ARE taking? Hope they're not putting all their eggs in the grassroots support basket. Hands up everyone who is getting tired of talking (or reading) about this issue. I wonder if we should redirect our efforts towards bringing in the genetic material that we're interested in and breeding bettas. Yes, bettas. I don't think the cichlid and guppy folk are too concerned.

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Posted

Been very quiet from the so called industry - a number of LFS here didn't even know there was an IRA and had no idea that it could impact them at all. I'm concerned they've used say the Pet Industry in general as their stakeholder rather than the Aquarium Industry stakeholders.

I'm guessing by now too that Tony Burke has put all of us on his ignored list on twitter - and probably we are getting similar treatments bythemedia. Perhaps its now time for letters to media, politicians.... surveys.... something new?

I'm in favour though of trying to get a few wilds at least so we can try to do something.... killiguy has made a call in the other thread to start getting a list of who has what which is a good start....

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Posted (edited)

I have to say I really agree with Bec, I think they will find it very diffiuclt to justify ignoring strong scientific evidence that condradicts theirs. If they do then their practice is not science, ie it does not adhere to the requirements of the scientific method by, ignoring falsification.

If they did this and still brought in the batchtesting we could then go the media and say "hey, they directly ignored this" and that I feel strongly get the media's attention because the media and most of society just love corruption and similar in politics :P

I personally don't think we could think up a method more likely to succeed than this. The issue is yes, funding. However I like Bec's idea as a way to try make it work.

Re my housemate, if he doesn't know and he can't be bothered helping he's gunna say "I don't know" and I'd then leave it, this has happened before. Can always ask though.

Edited by fishish

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Posted

Maybe we should all start sending all our dead fish (of any species) to Biosecurity Australia and say, "here, test these".

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Posted

:rofl: or send to Tony Burke.... a big pile of dead fish on his door step .... with a message saying sort this mess out now Tony!

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Posted (edited)

:rofl: or send to Tony Burke.... a big pile of dead fish on his door step .... with a message saying sort this mess out now Tony!

1. Ask bayfish and AI for there deadfish.

2. Place on steps of parliament to show that it would be but a fraction of how many would be killed for testing.

3. Wait for media attention or AFP.

4. Smile for the cameras. (or yell abuse if handcuffed by AFP)

5. Watch yourself on the 6 o clock news.

Edited by MJay

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Posted

I also want to know if any lfs are doing anything. Ive asked a few around here, and they either had no idea what I was on about or started talking about something completely different :blink: One also just shrugged it off, saying 'if it happens, it happens' ... true, but itll also mean the end of a big part of your business! *Sigh*

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Posted

Not that we need reminding, but lets try not to look like the insane animal rights activists while we campaign :P

Also, keep in mind that some animal rights organizations would love it if no more fish got imported, because they are against keeping fish in tanks etc or are against the import and quarantine process that fish go through. So do a background check before you involve them in our campaign.

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